euro 2012 stadiums of hate

[john everest]

In yesterdays sunday people, a good article by stan collymore, who speaks a lot of sense, was illustrated with 2 captioned photographs.
One was the ultra section of Dynamo Kiev, the other a section of support of Shakhtar Donetsk.
The Kiev fans were masked up holding flares, which is illegal in Ukraine and can result in a banning order, hence the masks.The paper underlined the photo saying masked nazis holding flares....err no, just fans holding flares! The other were fans holding banners and wearing scarfs with the Donetsk crossed hammer and pick logo, which is their history, shakhtar means miner in russian. (much the same as west ham have crossed hammers) according to the paper however, this was a sinister fascist symbol openly on display.
This type of reporting comes from a country that protects its racist football captain ahead of anti-racist footballers. Whose cowardly and spineless manager will "leave it to the authorities to deal with racism at football" after Balotelli says he will walk off if he encounters any racism, and his manager giving him 100% backing by saying he would get his team to go as well in solidarity! Hodgson, however, cowering behind his racist captain, would rather 'leave it to the authories'!!!!
The same authorities who fine Mourinho 50,000 euros for speaking out of turn, and Juventus 7,000 euros for displaying racist banners, and Real Madrid 4,000 euros for displaying nazi images, Bilbao fined 40,000 for chucking flares around.........
Ukraine and Poland does have its fair share of dicks, but their is an equal if not greater number of anti-racists prepared to resist physically any nazis/fascists seen on the streets. (you can google the videos on youtube)
Stare in the mirror long enough and the devil appears, and it seems the BBC have been looking there a hell of a long time!!!!

[john everest]

..........another thing i forgot to mention was the footage in the documentary.
Metalist Kharkiv v Arsenal Kyiv. That is to say, Ukraine/Russian nationalists versus the most active left wing supported club in Ukraine.
Many of those 'nazi' salutes were there version of the 'munich plane gestures' so once loved by Liverpool and Leeds fans when they played Man Utd in the past.
Poor jealous scaremongering due to sour grapes cos they never got the world cup!!!

[Arenig]

Something else that troubled me about that documentary - all the white supremacist and nazi graffiti painted all over and not cleaned off painted over by the state surely leaves them complicit.
And how long's the Celtic cross been a racist symbol? :-(

[yannick]

Originally Posted by deva-fan

was shocked to watch and find my second team - after chester, widzew lodz were playing in the derby that was featured at the beginning of the programme, v LKS. as shown in the programme the LKS fans were full of hate but i've no idea how widzew fans react and reply to such disgusting behaviour - opposition fans were banned from the game. but, from what little i know of the derby (i don't read polish) the widzew fans aren't as bad as many others in that league. hopefully that's the case.

at least the poles seem to be tackling the problem, slowly, whereas the ukranians seemed to ignore the problem completely.

They were copying a Feyenoord chant weren't they?

The stuff about anti-Semitism in Krakow was ridiculous. I don't pretend to be an expert on Polish football but I do know that Cracovia supporters adopt the Jewish tag and use it to describe themselves in much the same way that Spurs use "yid". Their ultras are called the Jude Gang. And anti-Semitism directed towards Cracovia has to be taken in that context.

Now I agree that Wisła Kraków fans should not be using anti-Semitic language and that there's something slightly off about a predominantly Catholic supporter base adopting or reclaiming words intended as terms of abuse to an ethnic group to which they don't belong - but isn't that pretty much the same situation we have in England? Arsenal sing about how Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, West Ham sing about how they're gassing the Jews when Tottenham lose and Chelsea sing about Spurs getting gassed in the morning.

It's anti-Semitic language that comes from hatred of Spurs rather than hatred of Jews and, as ugly and embarrassing as it might be, it hardly suggests that London football grounds are a place where Jewish people are unsafe.

But Panorama completely twisted this dynamic by asserting that Cracovia and Wisła both traded the word Jew as an insult. Pro-Cracovia graffiti referring to them as the Jude Gang was implied to be anti-Cracovia graffiti. Funnily enough, despite claiming that the word "Jew" was used by Polish football fans in general to mean "someone who deserves to be defeated", they didn't show any anti-Semitic graffiti aimed at Wisła fans. I don't know if it was utterly ignorant or just intentionally duplicitous.

Given that Wisła have a high-profile Jewish player; Israeli-born midfielder Maor Melikson, why did they not interview him when discussing anti-Semitism at that club? It might be because he's stated that people at Wisła were friendly towards him and he hasn't received much abuse?

[yannick]

Panorama attacked over 'sensationalist' Euro 2012 racism claims | Football | guardian.co.uk
An ugly spectre: Euro 2012 is overshadowed by accusations of racism and anti-Semitism | The Economist

Sounds like Panorama's report was misleading and deliberately so.

[john everest]

Originally Posted by Arenig

Something else that troubled me about that documentary - all the white supremacist and nazi graffiti painted all over and not cleaned off painted over by the state surely leaves them complicit.
And how long's the Celtic cross been a racist symbol? :-(

The celtic cross has been adopted by fascist scum for quite a long time. More so in other countries rather than this one, allthough here it is displayed by the filth at times.

[deva-fan]

Originally Posted by yannick

They were copying a Feyenoord chant weren't they?

The stuff about anti-Semitism in Krakow was ridiculous. I don't pretend to be an expert on Polish football but I do know that Cracovia supporters adopt the Jewish tag and use it to describe themselves in much the same way that Spurs use "yid". Their ultras are called the Jude Gang. And anti-Semitism directed towards Cracovia has to be taken in that context.

Now I agree that Wisła Kraków fans should not be using anti-Semitic language and that there's something slightly off about a predominantly Catholic supporter base adopting or reclaiming words intended as terms of abuse to an ethnic group to which they don't belong - but isn't that pretty much the same situation we have in England? Arsenal sing about how Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, West Ham sing about how they're gassing the Jews when Tottenham lose and Chelsea sing about Spurs getting gassed in the morning.

It's anti-Semitic language that comes from hatred of Spurs rather than hatred of Jews and, as ugly and embarrassing as it might be, it hardly suggests that London football grounds are a place where Jewish people are unsafe.

But Panorama completely twisted this dynamic by asserting that Cracovia and Wisła both traded the word Jew as an insult. Pro-Cracovia graffiti referring to them as the Jude Gang was implied to be anti-Cracovia graffiti. Funnily enough, despite claiming that the word "Jew" was used by Polish football fans in general to mean "someone who deserves to be defeated", they didn't show any anti-Semitic graffiti aimed at Wisła fans. I don't know if it was utterly ignorant or just intentionally duplicitous.

Given that Wisła have a high-profile Jewish player; Israeli-born midfielder Maor Melikson, why did they not interview him when discussing anti-Semitism at that club? It might be because he's stated that people at Wisła were friendly towards him and he hasn't received much abuse?

great post

[Phils-an-alki]

BBC Sport - Euro 2012: Netherlands 'subjected to racist chants while training'

Its started already.

[john everest]

Originally Posted by Phils-an-alki

BBC Sport - Euro 2012: Netherlands 'subjected to racist chants while training'

Its started already.

'It' started when England failed to get the World cup last summer..............
Racism occurs throughout Europe in every country. The media witchunt against Ukraine and Poland is an attempt to de-rail a successful tournament so they can say "told you so......we should have had it".....

[yannick]

Originally Posted by john everest

'It' started when England failed to get the World cup last summer..............
Racism occurs throughout Europe in every country. The media witchunt against Ukraine and Poland is an attempt to de-rail a successful tournament so they can say "told you so......we should have had it".....

Exactly. I know the knuckle-dragging contingent of Polish society will do their best to confirm all the worst stereotypes, but I find it astonishing how tinged with bigotry the accusations of racism have become.

That said, well done to Van Bommel. He dealt with the racist abuse in a dignified, measured and responsible way and ensured that it wasn't swept under the carpet. I hope that there's some comeback for how KNVB particularly and also UEFA dealt with this incident.

But I don't think anyone in the English squad or media can seize the moral high-ground while an England player is waiting to stand trial for racially abusing someone and his victim's brother is inexplicably dropped.