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Old 15th April 2021, 11.42:36   #901-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

As a child I remember many happy days eating homemade ice cream within Acton Park before the Herbert Jennings Road development. Think it was called Sammy’s if my memory is correct.
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Old 15th April 2021, 14.39:37   #902-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Sam's milk bar at the 4 dogs entrance
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Old 15th April 2021, 15.57:41   #903-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by WasanActonlad View Post
Sam's milk bar at the 4 dogs entrance
Very close to where the 1st Welsh Cup Final was played. Some say it was roughly where Jennings Avenue is now and others say he site its roughly where The Acton Pub is now. We will never know exactly.

If only when I was youngster I had quizzed Mr Lerry.

and yes Sams was down the side of the gatehouse. I used to deliver there and was sometimes rewarded with a ice cream milk shake ! Sometimes at weekends there was a gathering of motorbikes.
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Old 15th April 2021, 18.19:06   #904-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by Inside Left View Post
Very close to where the 1st Welsh Cup Final was played. Some say it was roughly where Jennings Avenue is now and others say he site its roughly where The Acton Pub is now. We will never know exactly.

If only when I was youngster I had quizzed Mr Lerry.

and yes Sams was down the side of the gatehouse. I used to deliver there and was sometimes rewarded with a ice cream milk shake ! Sometimes at weekends there was a gathering of motorbikes.
Every weekend
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Old 16th April 2021, 10.53:28   #905-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

The precise location of the field/pitch for the first Welsh cup final within the estate of acton park is a mystery...
If memory correct I believe a notice in the local paper of the time stated entrance to be used was from the Rhosnesni lodge that supports the theory it was somewhere in the region of rhosnessni end of modern day Herbert Jennings ave.
Though I think Leary reported that one of the players reminisced that they walked up Chester rd hill suggesting it was somewhere in the vacinity of the 4 dogs entrance.
I believe suggestions have stated possibly modern day Acton school field or even somewhere on the left of Box lane as you enter from CHester rd...basically back of Acton pub.

To my mind a couple of questions may help ascertain where..
1. Where did the players change..?
Did they arrive pre changed..?
Was a building used. ?
Where marquee's erected and used for this ..

2. Logic dictates wherever it was it must have been convenient for the 1500 odd that attended to access from town and those travelling from ruabon along with the druids team to Wxm general station.
The Rhosnessni lodge is about the furthest point from town and the station....but.. could the players have used the Gate hangs high to change in..?
For convenience logic suggests it must be somewhere in vacinity of the Chester rd side if the acton estate.
At this time I believe the estate extended as far modern day Westminster drive..
So could it have been 9 acre
Could it have been on the flat area between rhosnessni lane and the beginning of acton hill..ie area of Cilcen grove, Neville crescent..
Or as suggested before at the top of the hill in the region of 4 dogs entrance..

Finally when this is solved the next question would be where exactly on Chester Rd was the 3rd venue in Wrexham to stage Welsh Cup final (think it was 1879 final)
Personally think it was the cricket field of the then Groves academy bottom modern day corner of Yale/cambrian college complex by chester rd roundabout.
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Old 16th April 2021, 11.54:55   #906-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

There is a map in WREXHAM FOOTBALL CLUB (Images of Sport) 1872-1950, by Gareth Davies and Peter Jones, which gives the location where they believed that the pitch was sited for the first Welsh Cup Final.
For the benefit of those fans who are not from the area, I have added a screenshot of a map from the 1870’s/80’s (attached) and imposed the pitch onto the map, as well as adding the location where I believe that the Rhosnesni Racecourse was located in the 17th/early 18th Centuries.
With regard to the other posts on the last couple of pages of this thread, I have also added the location of Pwll yr Uwdd on the map, for clarity, and the positions of Bryn Llyn (Lake on the Hill), Pwll y Wrach and the location of Crispin Cottage, opposite our current Racecourse Stadium.
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File Type: jpg WELSH CUP FINAL PITCH AND RHOSNESSNEY RACECOURSE.jpg (1.11 MB, 35 views)
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Old 16th April 2021, 12.09:46   #907-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by eastsussex View Post
There is a map in WREXHAM FOOTBALL CLUB (Images of Sport) 1872-1950, by Gareth Davies and Peter Jones, which gives the location where they believed that the pitch was sited for the first Welsh Cup Final.
For the benefit of those fans who are not from the area, I have added a screenshot of a map from the 1870’s/80’s (attached) and imposed the pitch onto the map, as well as adding the location where I believe that the Rhosnesni Racecourse was located in the 17th/early 18th Centuries.
With regard to the other posts on the last couple of pages of this thread, I have also added the location of Pwll yr Uwdd on the map, for clarity, and the positions of Bryn Llyn (Lake on the Hill), Pwll y Wrach and the location of Crispin Cottage, opposite our current Racecourse Stadium.
Rethe location attributed to Jones and Davies - They believe it to be in a certain location but there is no firm evidence.
The nearest we get to evidence is from George Larry who recalls a relative of his explaining that the walked out of town and up Acton Hill to the match. George has used the more reliable secondary source - so it is likely that the match was played out, as has been suggested, somewhere by the now Acton Hotel or aside the entrance gates to the Hall. Another blue plaque maybe? on Box lane.
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Old 16th April 2021, 13.12:36   #908-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasanActonlad View Post
Finally when this is solved the next question would be where exactly on Chester Rd was the 3rd venue in Wrexham to stage Welsh Cup final (think it was 1879 final)
Personally think it was the cricket field of the then Groves academy bottom modern day corner of Yale/cambrian college complex by chester rd roundabout.
It was the 1888 Final. It was played at a location called Owens Field on Chester Road. Owens Field belonged to a William Owen who was landlord of a pub called The Red Lion Inn. Apparently there were two pubs by this name at different times in the same area. One of which still stands but is now known as the Welsh Fusilier.

There is a large area of flat land behind the Fusilier which is now Waterworld car park although this is on Chester Street rather than Chester Road.

Owens Field was also used for sports days and the circus so it must have been quite a large area.

I've tried tracking this site down but can't find anything definitive.
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Old 16th April 2021, 13.23:57   #909-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasanActonlad View Post
The precise location of the field/pitch for the first Welsh cup final within the estate of acton park is a mystery...
If memory correct I believe a notice in the local paper of the time stated entrance to be used was from the Rhosnesni lodge that supports the theory it was somewhere in the region of rhosnessni end of modern day Herbert Jennings ave.
Though I think Leary reported that one of the players reminisced that they walked up Chester rd hill suggesting it was somewhere in the vacinity of the 4 dogs entrance.
I believe suggestions have stated possibly modern day Acton school field or even somewhere on the left of Box lane as you enter from CHester rd...basically back of Acton pub.

To my mind a couple of questions may help ascertain where..
1. Where did the players change..?
Did they arrive pre changed..?
Was a building used. ?
Where marquee's erected and used for this ..

2. Logic dictates wherever it was it must have been convenient for the 1500 odd that attended to access from town and those travelling from ruabon along with the druids team to Wxm general station.
The Rhosnessni lodge is about the furthest point from town and the station....but.. could the players have used the Gate hangs high to change in..?
For convenience logic suggests it must be somewhere in vacinity of the Chester rd side if the acton estate.
At this time I believe the estate extended as far modern day Westminster drive..
So could it have been 9 acre
Could it have been on the flat area between rhosnessni lane and the beginning of acton hill..ie area of Cilcen grove, Neville crescent..
Or as suggested before at the top of the hill in the region of 4 dogs entrance..

Finally when this is solved the next question would be where exactly on Chester Rd was the 3rd venue in Wrexham to stage Welsh Cup final (think it was 1879 final)
Personally think it was the cricket field of the then Groves academy bottom modern day corner of Yale/cambrian college complex by chester rd roundabout.
I did a bit of research on this myself when writing my dissertation a few years ago. The basis of my theory was the Rhosnesni Lodge entrance being advertised in the local press.

Please see below extract from my dissertation if you're interested,

"Despite it being such an important game in Welsh football history, the exact location of the final between Wrexham and Druids remains unknown. It is known the game took place in Acton Park, however the area is vast. It has been hypothesised, that one potential location is the current site of Acton Park School. It is plausible however that the location could have been elsewhere in the park, and the following evidence suggests so.

Appendix 8 demonstrates that there were two Lodges either side of the Acton Park School site, however a newspaper article advertising the final states ‘Admission, at the Rhosnessney Lodge’. It does not make logical sense to gain entrance from Rhosnessney Lodge, for an event supposedly held at the other side of the park, in an area that already had two Lodges. This would also require a long walk uphill, for spectators to reach the Acton Park School site.

Also when examining Appendix 8, the Acton Park School site contained a number of trees. The site adjacent to Rhosnessney Lodge would appear more plausible, as this site is next to where entrance was gained, is flat, and does not appear to have as many trees. Furthermore the Rhosnessney site appears large enough to accommodate a football pitch, along with 1,500 spectators.

The Rhosnessney Lodge also provided entrance to an athletics event held at Acton Park, two years prior to the Welsh Cup final of 1878. So the proposed site for the final may have had precedent in hosting sports.

Furthermore there is an exchange in a local paper a month after the 1878 Welsh Cup Final. A Mr Bate was discussing the merits of hosting an event at Acton Park, and suggests the ‘Rhosnessny side of Acton Park’, his reasons being ‘the Rhosnessney gate entrance, where there is a good stone wall, and convenient access from the Connah’s Quay Railway’. Whilst this does not explicitly state the Welsh Cup final was played at this site, it does show that this area was used for events, and also accessible to people traveling by trains.

The advert for the first Welsh Cup makes reference to a special train being run from Oswestry, therefore somewhere with good rail connections was imperative for the final."
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File Type: jpg Appendix 8.jpg (229.3 KB, 8 views)
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