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Old 3rd March 2016, 21.22:06   #91-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
Well if it did happen it was certainly before 1906, but as I am not the only one who believes this to be the case, it could well have been the case??
To be honest, before then it could have even been at an angle across the standard North - South or East -West configuration. I've quite an extensive collection of photos and movies of the Racecourse, none of which show it any different to today.

However, I do remember one of our erstwhile 'saviours' (Guterman\Hamilton I think, but may be wrong) who had suggested re-aligning the Racecourse pitch to maximise the size of the Kop, suposedly for the new stand development. I think we all know what the real intention was for this extra area that would have been realised.
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Old 3rd March 2016, 21.26:28   #92-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by brynoffa5 View Post
To be honest, before then it could have even been at an angle across the standard North - South or East -West configuration. I've quite an extensive collection of photos and movies of the Racecourse, none of which show it any different to today.

However, I do remember one of our erstwhile 'saviours' (Guterman\Hamilton I think, but may be wrong) who had suggested re-aligning the Racecourse pitch to maximise the size of the Kop, suposedly for the new stand development. I think we all know what the real intention was for this extra area that would have been realised.
Do any of the pictures, info you have give us an indication of when the main stand on Mold road was built ?
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Old 3rd March 2016, 21.40:17   #93-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
Attachment 2918

This one I think it's from the 30's. Someone posted it on the photos thread also and knew the date it was taken. Ashfield road etc I think is on it and they were built circa 1935 onwards....afaik.
Thanks jonesfach. I have never seen this before, so it puts a new light on things for me.
Am pretty sure that there were always references to stands around the Turf, I will see if I can find these references, and will see if I can find references to the Turf being at the winning post, although, I must admit that from the photo, it doesn't look like the racecourse orientation had ever been any different.
On reflection, the following article does say about carriages from the Plas Coch field down to the railings on Crispin Lane, although he also says about the temporary stands either side of The Turf.
CORRESPONDENCE.|1858-11-20|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online
I wonder if these were just paddock stands as the sale in 1897 refers to the sale of a third of the Racecourse which included a stand, paddock and ring and also where the cricket and rugby were played. I will try to find the references about the turf being built at the winners post.

Last edited by eastsussexred; 3rd March 2016 at 21.51:31..
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Old 3rd March 2016, 22.13:23   #94-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
Attachment 2918

This one I think it's from the 30's. Someone posted it on the photos thread also and knew the date it was taken. Ashfield road etc I think is on it and they were built circa 1935 onwards....afaik.
There was a reference to the winning post at the turf on this BBC article.

BBC NEWS | Wales | North East Wales | Tales of Turf, triumph and trouble

I suppose that not being a horseracing follower I had confused the finishing line with the winning post, (winners enclosure) which is why my orientation of the course had been out of sync.
Will see if I can find out where exactly the stands had been built in the early days. one between the turf and the 'garden' and the other the opposite side of the turf (could this one have been the paddock stand)?

Last edited by eastsussexred; 3rd March 2016 at 22.15:08..
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Old 4th March 2016, 01.55:24   #95-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

Sorry for taking so long getting back jonesfach, I often have a multitude of pages open online and forget what I was actually looking for when I first opened the pages.

I have put together a number of articles about stands at The Racecourse, most of which you will already know. The earliest article I can find relates to a scaffold stand which collapsed in 1811, although it is difficult to determine exactly where this was as the article just says that
‘A most severe race, and won with great difficulty. The Twinkler took the lead both heats, and most severe play. Just as the horses were running home the first heat, part of a scaffold gave way, and several persons fell; we are sorry to say, that by this accident Mr. Jones, formerly a maltster in Wrexham, had his leg broken.’

WREXHAM MEETING.|1811-10-10|North Wales Gazette - Welsh Newspapers Online

The article below from 1858 refers to previously 'over the years' there being two temporary stands, which the writer states- in those days were dismantled after the meeting, and which left a handsome profit. He then refers to this year (1858) being only one ‘unsightly’ stand the other side of the turf (possibly where the MRS is now) which proved a loss without any of the drawbacks he had averted to (i.e. dismantling the stand after the meeting).
As I read the article, the writer appears to be complaining about the dwindling crowds and changing class structure at the meetings, but I think he is also complaining about the new stand (which I think he is saying is not a temporary stand) and so may be an original stand which was later upgraded, or might possibly be the stand which remained next to the Turf for the next 90 years.

CORRESPONDENCE.|1858-11-20|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online


This article stated that there was already a stand in the football area of The Racecourse when a third of the Racecourse was sold in 1897.

WREXHAM RACECOURSE,|1897-04-01|Evening Express - Welsh Newspapers Online

And this old movie from a 1912 international match is possibly the same stand as the one that was sold.

Watch England v Wales at Wrexham 1912

This article below from the BBC states that Pete Jones had said that the players used to change in The Turf until the 1940’s and as the photo from 1948 on the other thread 'Racecourse in 1906 and 1912' shows the angled stand, which must have been built sometime in the 1940’s.
BBC NEWS | Wales | North East Wales | Tales of Turf, triumph and trouble

In 1952, the terraces of the Kop were laid and in 1978 a new Border Stand, later to be named The Eric Roberts Stand and subsequently the Glyndwr University Stand was built in the area of the old techend.

In 1998 the angled Mold Road Stand was demolished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp3Gylhgn7U

And 1999 The MRS was opened

Racecourse Ground - WOW.com

Last edited by eastsussexred; 4th March 2016 at 02.06:04..
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Old 4th March 2016, 10.09:46   #96-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

Thanks for the research.

Pretty much go along with the timeline as what was in my head.

Could it be that the parade ring for the horses was what the original pitch was on. Ie goal in front of the turf balcony (opposite way round to today) thus meaning that the winning line would be somewhere in the middle of the original Mold road stand. The small barriers spotted in 1906 and 1912 film might be the remainder of the parade ring??
So in 1897 when it was bought they changed the pitch around so the people in the stand would see more of the game.
The big question then would be was the stand built for the football? Or much earlier for cricket or the horse racing??
Horse racing 1858 !
When did the horse racing cease ESR...?
Perhaps 1897 was the year it all got turned round and provided the basis of the pitch as it is today.

Last edited by jonesfach; 4th March 2016 at 10.20:22..
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Old 4th March 2016, 14.20:38   #97-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
Sorry for taking so long getting back jonesfach, I often have a multitude of pages open online and forget what I was actually looking for when I first opened the pages.

I have put together a number of articles about stands at The Racecourse, most of which you will already know. The earliest article I can find relates to a scaffold stand which collapsed in 1811, although it is difficult to determine exactly where this was as the article just says that
‘A most severe race, and won with great difficulty. The Twinkler took the lead both heats, and most severe play. Just as the horses were running home the first heat, part of a scaffold gave way, and several persons fell; we are sorry to say, that by this accident Mr. Jones, formerly a maltster in Wrexham, had his leg broken.’

WREXHAM MEETING.|1811-10-10|North Wales Gazette - Welsh Newspapers Online

The article below from 1858 refers to previously 'over the years' there being two temporary stands, which the writer states- in those days were dismantled after the meeting, and which left a handsome profit. He then refers to this year (1858) being only one ‘unsightly’ stand the other side of the turf (possibly where the MRS is now) which proved a loss without any of the drawbacks he had averted to (i.e. dismantling the stand after the meeting).
As I read the article, the writer appears to be complaining about the dwindling crowds and changing class structure at the meetings, but I think he is also complaining about the new stand (which I think he is saying is not a temporary stand) and so may be an original stand which was later upgraded, or might possibly be the stand which remained next to the Turf for the next 90 years.

CORRESPONDENCE.|1858-11-20|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online


This article stated that there was already a stand in the football area of The Racecourse when a third of the Racecourse was sold in 1897.

WREXHAM RACECOURSE,|1897-04-01|Evening Express - Welsh Newspapers Online

And this old movie from a 1912 international match is possibly the same stand as the one that was sold.

Watch England v Wales at Wrexham 1912

This article below from the BBC states that Pete Jones had said that the players used to change in The Turf until the 1940’s and as the photo from 1948 on the other thread 'Racecourse in 1906 and 1912' shows the angled stand, which must have been built sometime in the 1940’s.
BBC NEWS | Wales | North East Wales | Tales of Turf, triumph and trouble

In 1952, the terraces of the Kop were laid and in 1978 a new Border Stand, later to be named The Eric Roberts Stand and subsequently the Glyndwr University Stand was built in the area of the old techend.

In 1998 the angled Mold Road Stand was demolished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp3Gylhgn7U

And 1999 The MRS was opened

Racecourse Ground - WOW.com
in addition to the above,
The Wrexham Advertiser reported that, during a rainstorm at a miners strike meeting at The Racecourse on 29th August 1859 ‘some of the miners took shelter in The Turf Tavern and some in the adjoining buildings’. The article then goes on to say ‘After some further delay William Williams, of the Westminster Works, mounted the steps of the stand on the course, and was joined by the members of the committee’
This seems to confirm that the stand was a permanent stand, as prior to 1858 stands were dismantled after the races and then reconstructed in time for following year’s races in the first week October.
The article also adds that the men had a collection at the gate as the men left the field.

MEETING OF THE COLLIERS ON THE RACECOURSE.|1859-09-03|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

Reading between the lines of many online articles, I would say that the first permanent stand was erected at The Racecourse in 1857 or 1858, in close proximity to The Turf Tavern, probably in the area where the MRS is now situated.
This structure was probably in the form of a grandstand which overlooked the winner’s enclosure and would possibly have been upgraded over the years leading up to the 20th Century.
The construction would have taken place during a time when the race meetings were increasingly under attack by an anti-racing campaign, led mainly by the church, who were lobbying the council to abandon the annual meeting, and were defended by a pro-racing group, consisting mostly of tradesmen and licensed victuallers.

I MEETING FOR THE RESUSCITATION OF WREXHAM RACR|1858-06-05|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

[No title]|1858-08-14|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

WREXHAM.|1860-03-24|The North Wales Chronicle and Advertiser for the Principality - Welsh Newspapers Online

The public races were however abandoned in Wrexham after 1858, although Cavalry horseracing continued at The Racecourse throughout this period.
DENBIGHSHIRE YEOMANRY CAVALRY RACES, I|1863-06-13|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

The construction of a permanent stand may well have been funded as part of a campaign by the grounds tenants and pro-racing supporters, who had lobbied for the October race meetings to remain as an annual event. This campaign was further endorsed when The Turf Tavern was demolished and replaced with the new Turf Hotel, sometime around 1860, for the purpose of re-introducing horseracing to the venue.
Turf Hotel, Mold Road, Wrexham

Subsequently, public pony and donkey race meetings were introduced to The Racecourse around 1865 as part of the newly formed autumn sports events which where staged annually for the next 50 years.

WREXHAM AUTUMN SPORTS. )|1867-10-26|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

Last edited by eastsussexred; 4th March 2016 at 14.24:33..
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Old 4th March 2016, 15.35:57   #98-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

It should also be added that in 1857, The football section of the ground was bought from Sir Watkin Williams Wynn and so the subsequent sports events, including cricket, football, athletics, pony and donkey racing would have taken place within the area where the current stadium is situated
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Old 4th March 2016, 15.50:41   #99-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
It should also be added that in 1857, The football section of the ground was bought from Sir Watkin Williams Wynn and so the subsequent sports events, including cricket, football, athletics, pony and donkey racing would have taken place within the area where the current stadium is situated
Sorry, typo, the ground was bought from Watkin Williams Wynn in 1897, from whence, the ground that we use today became separated and distinct from the rest of the racecourse.

Last edited by eastsussexred; 4th March 2016 at 15.56:21..
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