The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham...)

[Bobo99]

Originally Posted by WasanActonlad

Exceptional research....
And a big thank you from me..
Being at Bromfield after comprehensive education brought in..
I can recall running parallel to the road linking Penymaes and Westminster drive was a cut through behind the houses on the right towards 9 acre...can recall disused tennis courts and possibly tennis pavilion..
That would be at extreme right (east) of the field detailed in your map..
..that tennis court may have been the last remnant of sport played on the Owens field location..
Is it possible that wrexham grosevenor fc played here..can recall seeing match report that they played on chester Rd..

Hi WAL. I recall the tennis courts down the cut through. As teenagers we used to come from the Acton estate and play tennis if it wasn't in use. The locals didn't seem to mind. Don't know who it belonged to. We used to sit in the shade outside the wooden pavilion. This would have been mid 70's, (Hot summer of 76) the courts were in good condition at that time, access was down an overgrown track off the cut through.

[WasanActonlad]

Certainly recall summer of 76 think 75 wasn't bad either..
Left Bromfield 75

[WasanActonlad]

East Sussex @ cymru am both wxm
Messages sent to you both
Trust they are helpful..

[eastsussex]

Originally Posted by WasanActonlad

East Sussex @ cymru am both wxm
Messages sent to you both
Trust they are helpful..

Brilliant WAL. Much appreciated. I will forward a summary with all key dates, and proofs, over the weekend, as per your message. Thanks again.

[WasanActonlad]

Gather vontact I gave you is not one you've had before...
My suggestion would be tell him what you've got..but your call
Trust it bears fruition

[eastsussex]

Originally Posted by eastsussex

As my requests to Coflein do not seem to be leading anywhere, I have asked the National Monuments Record Office for Wales to review the information held for The Turf Hotel from the earlier Coflein survey and to update the history with the correct information

The National Monuments Record Office have now updated their historical records for The Turf Hotel as follows.

'The Turf Hotel at Wrexham Racecourse is considered the oldest purpose-built public house at any sport stadium in the World. The existing building is comprised of two separate buildings, which were each built for slightly different purposes at different times. The Turf Tavern, which is the lower section of the current hotel, was built sometime between 1795 and 1819- when it was first recorded on a local map. In the same year as the map was published, the Stansty parish register also recorded the Christening of a son for Joseph and Margaret Foulkes, who were listed as the landlords of The Turf Tavern.

In 1822, the same parish register also recorded that Margaret Foulkes gave birth to a daughter, and identified her husband Joseph as the landlord of ‘The Grandstand’ (the taller section of the current Turf Hotel) although we know from numerous later newspaper advertisements that The Grandstand section of Turf Tavern was originally a kind of functions rooms and restaurant that had been built a few metres away from the tavern, specifically to provide an upmarket experience for visitors to The Wrexham Races

Both sections, The Grandstand and Turf Tavern, were each identified as separate structures in the tithe maps from the early 1840’s.

The tithe map shows the taller section of the current Turf Hotel (The Grandstand) as being a completely square building, separated from the older lower section (The Turf Tavern) by a space of about 4 metres. Later maps however show that both buildings were later joined together and a cantilevered bay was added to the Racecourse side of The Grandstand section, to enable visitors to watch the races from a balcony that overlooked the finishing line. At the same time, the roof of The Grandstand section was extended with a fantail that oversailed the original building to protect spectators on the balcony from the weather.



Local newspaper reports indicate that the refurbishment work took place in 1854, when the racecourse was upgraded,

Another map from 1872 confirms that both buildings had been joined together into a single structure ‘The Turf Hotel’ but early photographs of The Racecourse show that the individual sections were joined together by means of an undercroft, with a connecting room on the first floor and a covered foyer that served as an entrance to the course at ground floor level.

Additional work was carried out to upgrade the stadium and The Turf Hotel, in order to host the national game against Scotland in 1913, and so the entrance at the undercroft was bricked up to tie both buildings together at ground floor level, to form a lounge area, and the external skin of The Grandstand section was replaced with the stone panels that can still be seen at the rear of The Grandstand section today.

The doorway out to the balcony was also later bricked up and replaced with a window, and both sections have been roughcast rendered within decorated quoins to provide the appearance of a single structure, although a closer look at the windows and features of both sections, in isolation, shows that details such as the cills, frames and surrounds are just later decorative additions, while the different floor levels of both sections also identify that each section was originally built to a different design.

The front elevation of The Grandstand section was also built around 70mm proud of the line of the older tavern section and this discrepancy is clearly visible on the Mold Road elevation, where the decorative quoins hide the line of the original extension that bonded the structures together, by means of the 1854 undercroft, which was bricked up in 1913.'

I have emailed the Welsh Football History Museum with the details of my research on this thread relating to the club, stadium, Turf and the history of the land on which the stadium was built (thanks to the contact details provided by WasanActonlad) and I will be contacting the council to request some kind of official recognition (perhaps another plaque?) for The Turf Hotel being The Oldest purpose-built public house at any sport stadium in the World.

ComeOnYouReds

[eastsussex]

Originally Posted by Cymru_Am_Byth_WXM

I've found a source that says Wrexham Grosvenor played on Mr Snapes Field on Chester Road. No idea where that was though.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...92/3854301/54/

Morning C_A_B_WXM.

I have found the location of Wrexham Grosvenor’s long-lost pitch.



William Snape was a town counsellor who had been a hatter, hosier and clothier of 43 High Street and formerly a partner in Potter&Snape’s bookshop and printing service at 18/19 High Street. He was the owner of Lion House in High Street, but later became an auctioneer and wine merchant who lived at a house called ‘Preswylfod’ on Chester Road. He was also the Secretary, treasurer and auditor for the WM&CQ railway company and had numerous other business and civic interests. He died in 1890.
Snape’s field was located at the back of the Roman Catholic Chapel on Chester Street. The chapel was built as an extension onto the side of the Wesleyan chapel in 1856.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...42/4585846/29/


The location of William Snape’s field was recorded in a report from a court case in 1874

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...32/4589237/21/

In those days, the entrance to the field was at the bottom of Chester Road, where it meets Chester Street.

Today this would be in the gardens on Llwyn Isaf, in front of the Registry Office, as shown in the attachments.

[eastsussex]

Originally Posted by eastsussex

Morning C_A_B_WXM.

I have found the location of Wrexham Grosvenor’s long-lost pitch.



William Snape was a town counsellor who had been a hatter, hosier and clothier of 43 High Street and formerly a partner in Potter&Snape’s bookshop and printing service at 18/19 High Street. He was the owner of Lion House in High Street, but later became an auctioneer and wine merchant who lived at a house called ‘Preswylfod’ on Chester Road. He was also the Secretary, treasurer and auditor for the WM&CQ railway company and had numerous other business and civic interests. He died in 1890.
Snape’s field was located at the back of the Roman Catholic Chapel on Chester Street. The chapel was built as an extension onto the side of the Wesleyan chapel in 1856.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...42/4585846/29/


The location of William Snape’s field was recorded in a report from a court case in 1874

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...32/4589237/21/

In those days, the entrance to the field was at the bottom of Chester Road, where it meets Chester Street.

Today this would be in the gardens on Llwyn Isaf, in front of the Registry Office, as shown in the attachments.

Correction- the chapel on Chester Street was a Baptist chapel, whereas the RC chapel and this particular field was located off Regent Street. I will update after the final

[eastsussex]

Originally Posted by Cymru_Am_Byth_WXM

I've done a bit of digging and it would appear that there was a William Snape who was a prominent wine trader and auctioneer in Wrexham around the time.

In 1881, Mr Snape is listed as living at Grove Park.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...52/4585157/25/

Old maps show that Grove Park at the time was a road that ran from the modern day roundabout on Chester Road by the Groves School, and through the modern day Coleg Cambria, coming out on the junction to access the College.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side...ight=ESRIWorld

He is listed as living at Preswylfod, Chester Road on a source from 1883.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...71/4589974/16/

A source from 1883 mentions installing sewers along Chester Road. It is said the work will go up to Grove Road, and also to the road just past Mr Snape's house.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...45/4591650/27/


In 1883, land on the right hand side of Chester Road, between gardens owned by Mr Snape was selected as the site of a North Wales College.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...79/4590084/31/

When looking at all of the above and also comparing it with the old maps, it looks as though William Snape lived where Chester Road meets the old Grove Park Road. The only house on the old maps is the where current St Johns Hostel is. Given the age of the building it's possible that building was his house.

Given that William Snape owned land roughly where the Groves School was, could it be possible that the Chester Road ground used by Wrexham Grosvenor and a few other Clubs was where the Groves School field was? Therefore in the adjacent field to Owens Field where the Welsh Cup Final was played.

Afternoon C_A_B_WXM,

.

William Snape did not live at Grove Park, but rather was elected to the board of Guardians for the Poor Union, to represent the area of Grove Park in the 1881 article above. Instead, he lived at Preswylfod on Chester Road and we know from an article from 1883 that a local committee met to discuss the suitability of a site for a proposed North Wales College on a field off Chester Road, which was owned by Sir Robert Cunliffe, between the gardens of Mr Snape and Miss Poyser

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...79/4590084/31/

The ‘Miss Poyser’in question was the daughter of Mr Hampden Poyser of Acton Grange, who sold a small plot of land to the council in 1890, which was located at the corner where Grove Road meets Chester Road, to make an easier curve in the footpath at that junction.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...39/4591045/53/

Hampden Poyser owned a fair bit of land in Wrexham and William Snape frequently acted as his agent.
The land that he sold to the council was in front of the first house on the upper side of Grove Road, where it meets Chester Road, not on the Grove Park side.
This house, which was known as Grove Lodge and designated in 1913 as No 17 Grove Road is recorded in The Encyclopaedia of Wrexham (page 144) as being the home of John Jones, the co founder of Island Green Brewery, who died in 1913 and left the house to his nieces (as well as the adjoining house ‘Preswylfod’).
As we know from a number of newspaper articles that Preswylfod was located on Chester Road, and we also know that the name first appears in 1880, then it would seem that William Snape vocated Lion House and moved to the new house Preswylfod off Chester Road at that time, where he may have also been leasing a field from Sir Robert Cunliffe. He had financial problems soon after and entered his businesses into voluntary liquidation in 1882.
Anyway, Snape had owned or leased a number of fields over the years, but the field between Preswylfod on Chester Road and Grove Lodge on Grove Road looks the most likely location where the Grosvenor Club played their football. The small road/lane off Chester Road to Preswylfod, which has been mentioned in a number of earlier newspaper articles, was probably the origin of Foster Road and the field in question, today, would be located between Plas Darland Flats, Grove Park Close and across Foster Road where Chevet Hay was located, before Foster Road was built, as attached.
Incidently, another house called ‘Preswylfod’ was built a few decades later, directly opposite Mr Snapes house, on the opposite side of Chester Road and this house, which still exists today, was known as Preswylfod, No 6 Maesydre Avenue- which was the previous location of ‘Owens Field’ where the 1888 Welsh Cup Final was held.