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Old 7th March 2016, 20.47:42   #118-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

Turf Tavern/Hotel

While the name of The Turf Tavern persisted, to lesser degrees, for many years, the name of The Turf Hotel first started to appear in the Wrexham Advertiser in 1865 although I can find no evidence of The Tavern being demolished at this time.
The Turf Tavern would have been a big building in its own right, with an upstairs that catered for functions, it was big enough to function as a kind of restaurant, ball room, and had facilities to hold meetings as well as being a traditional ale house.
The name change seems to make commercial sense as there was considerable work to extend the railway lines from Wrexham at that time, including plans to link up with Liverpool, Chester and a connection with the Holyhead line.
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Old 7th March 2016, 21.16:08   #119-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
Turf Tavern/Hotel

While the name of The Turf Tavern persisted, to lesser degrees, for many years, the name of The Turf Hotel first started to appear in the Wrexham Advertiser in 1865 although I can find no evidence of The Tavern being demolished at this time.
The Turf Tavern would have been a big building in its own right, with an upstairs that catered for functions, it was big enough to function as a kind of restaurant, ball room, and had facilities to hold meetings as well as being a traditional ale house.
The name change seems to make commercial sense as there was considerable work to extend the railway lines from Wrexham at that time, including plans to link up with Liverpool, Chester and a connection with the Holyhead line.
Be great to have some pictures wouldn't it. Sadly I don't think we will ever see any even if there were some.
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Old 7th March 2016, 21.24:32   #120-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
Definitely.

Sounds like the old changing rooms the part you were on about. Used until the 40s when the angled stand was built. There were some rooms/Windows under the old Mold road stand am sure of it, but never went inside.
Spent many an hour wandering about, whilst my brother was doing his duty for the reserves, on a Saturday afternoon. Must have sat in every seat in the ground retrieving the occasional football that went out of play.
You can see them in this photo jonesfach
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File Type: jpg wrexhamracecourse moldroad.jpg (263.3 KB, 58 views)
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Old 7th March 2016, 21.51:41   #121-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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You can see them in this photo jonesfach
Yes that's them. Anyone on here ever been inside? What was inside? As we have now found out they weren't changing rooms??

I know from the road side there was the bar etc. The supporters association club? I think Les Evans took some for the leader when it got demolished but haven't seen any on the Internet, but wonder whether the leader still have some? I will try and get in contact with them tomorrow. Wonder if they would let us scan some from a historic point of view?
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Old 7th March 2016, 22.10:25   #122-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
Yes that's them. Anyone on here ever been inside? What was inside? As we have now found out they weren't changing rooms??

I know from the road side there was the bar etc. The supporters association club? I think Les Evans took some for the leader when it got demolished but haven't seen any on the Internet, but wonder whether the leader still have some? I will try and get in contact with them tomorrow. Wonder if they would let us scan some from a historic point of view?
When I've spoke to them in the past they've always been helpful
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Old 7th March 2016, 22.36:04   #123-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

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Be great to have some pictures wouldn't it. Sadly I don't think we will ever see any even if there were some.
Would be great to see what the place was like in those early days, but there just doesn't seem to be that much information about. Even maps of the area are scarce. I had hoped that the development of the railway would have created some photo's of the area as they cut a deep embankment for Wrexham General station, but I cant find any anywhere that includes the gound.

Last edited by eastsussexred; 7th March 2016 at 22.42:27..
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Old 8th March 2016, 07.09:26   #124-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

I have finally worked out the issues surrounding the construction dates and details of The Turf Tavern and The Turf Hotel.

The Turf Tavern was built between 1831 and 1835 and not 1840 to 1844 as published as a possible date range by The Royal Commission. This is confirmed by the fact that a landlord of The Turf Tavern was recorded in the Pigot Commercial Directory dated 1835 (John Tench (Pigot 1835) Turf Tavern)
Clwyd FHS - Historic Wrexham Inns

The same is also confirmed in The Denbighshire Archives.

https://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en/r...sort=BestMatch

Although there are no records of The Turf Tavern in The Pigot Directory of 1830, and so the first date of occupation must have been between 1831 and 1835.


The Royal Commission had surveyed The Turf Hotel in 2007 and concluded that it had been built on the site of the demolished Turf Tavern in c1860.

Coflein


However, as previously posted, during the early years of the 1850’s the temperance movement and the church had organised a very strong campaign to have race meetings at The racecourse stopped, and so a pro-racing group consisting mostly of brewers and landlords had funded and arranged the construction of a new permanent grandstand in 1854, which was sited next to The Turf Tavern ‘where the MRS is situated today’.

I WREXHAM RACES. I|1853-10-15|The North Wales Chronicle and Advertiser for the Principality - Welsh Newspapers Online

The following year, the same group funded the construction of a new public house which was built directly onto the end of the original Turf Tavern.
In August 1855, John Whittaker, who had been landlord of The Turf Tavern for many years, posted an article in The Wrexham Advertiser, advertising a Housewarming Dinner .

Advertising|1855-08-11|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

Housewarming dinners were a well established custom for landlords when they moved into a new property in those days, and numerous newspaper articles show that John Whittaker had lived continuously at The Turf Tavern right up to the time that he advertised a housewarming dinner for his new property.
In effect, The Turf Tavern had not been demolished, but rather a New Turf Tavern had been built directly onto the old building (1855), with only the end section of The Tavern eventually being knocked down when the new MRS was built in 1999.

As soon as John Whittaker and his family moved into the new building, the end section of the old Turf Tavern was converted into offices for reporters and race officials.

SPORTING. I|1855-10-06|Wrexham and Denbighshire Advertiser and Cheshire Shropshire and North Wales Register - Welsh Newspapers Online

The upper floor of this section of The Turf Tavern would later be used as changing rooms.
The attached image shows the extent of The Turf Tavern, with the red diagonal line showing the section that had been converted into offices for racecourse officials, with the arrow showing the door and steps from the upper floor where the changing rooms for players had been, until this section was demolished.

The Turf Tavern was renamed and converted into The Turf Hotel in 1865, probably in response to the growing number of visitors to Wrexham, due to a rapidly expanding railway network.

Historic Wrexham Racecourse Videos Released - Wrexham.com Wrexham.com



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File Type: jpg Racecourse 1927.jpg (126.9 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by eastsussexred; 8th March 2016 at 07.14:12..
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Old 8th March 2016, 12.20:13   #125-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

What can you say.

Spent nearly an hour reading through all that. Amazing research...it all adds up now too. I was thinking the turf seemed a little longer on the older pictures to how it is now.

I think what helped the development of the football club, was in probably in part,due to the stopping of the horse racing. It had a new grandstand doing nothing and what else did people have to do once the cricket and the summer had finished. People were also in the habit of going to the racecourse regularly, so the infer structure was already in place to hit the ground running.
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Old 8th March 2016, 13.00:25   #126-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesfach View Post
What can you say.

Spent nearly an hour reading through all that. Amazing research...it all adds up now too. I was thinking the turf seemed a little longer on the older pictures to how it is now.

I think what helped the development of the football club, was in probably in part,due to the stopping of the horse racing. It had a new grandstand doing nothing and what else did people have to do once the cricket and the summer had finished. People were also in the habit of going to the racecourse regularly, so the infer structure was already in place to hit the ground running.
I think that the breweries and pub landlords had been under pressure for some time for the amount of drunkenness in town, particularly during the race meetings, which were like a public holiday for the working classes, and of course, were a major annual earner for the pubs. The temperance movement and church were gaining more influence and there was a growing movement towards athletics and sports, hence the founding of Wrexham Football club in 1864 and Athletics and sporting events on the Racecourse, which had originally been started by John Whittaker, landlord of the Turf Tavern in 1857.
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