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Old 19th May 2023, 06.36:00   #1270-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by Prodigal Dragon View Post
Next to the old ‘Boys’ Pen’? I think that might have been the old physio room, but not 100% sure.
It was indeed a gym and even had wall bars at one point. Was also used to detain the odd hooligan when the club had problems with them cica 1970's.
Seem to remember it had two doors one towards the players entrance and one to the rear.
Does anyone remember it used as an ad hoc changing facility for the colts?
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Old 1st June 2023, 23.18:02   #1271-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by Inside Left View Post
It was indeed a gym and even had wall bars at one point. Was also used to detain the odd hooligan when the club had problems with them cica 1970's.
Seem to remember it had two doors one towards the players entrance and one to the rear.
Does anyone remember it used as an ad hoc changing facility for the colts?
Yes. As you say, it was a gym IL. It was built 1958 ish, shortly after ‘the cafeteria’ (tea hut) had been erected (1957/58) at the side of the old stand on the Yale side of the ground, which Bobo had mentioned a few posts back. These were the last structures added, as part of a 5 year building plan, which included concrete terracing to all sides of the ground, the construction of the concrete wall around the pitch and the raising of the old kop, which has just been demolished. The plan originally intended to raise the ground capacity to 45,000, but this was never achieved.
It doesn’t surprise me that the gym was used as a lock up by the police, because there had been a lock up on The Racecourse since the mid 19th Century at least.
There is a newspaper report, which stated that during race meetings the police would lock up pickpockets and rogues, as well as those who had drank too much at the races. I believe that they were detained under the original Mold Road Stand (built 1854) until the meetings had ended, before being transferred down to the police station.
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Old 27th June 2023, 06.26:09   #1272-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

With the banter on facebook over why Wrexham play in the English leagues. Was Wrexham Township ever in England? Possibly Watts Dyke as the border (Crispen Lane) See old map. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/b3...33c23244bd.jpg
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Old 27th June 2023, 07.12:57   #1273-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by Bobo99 View Post
With the banter on facebook over why Wrexham play in the English leagues. Was Wrexham Township ever in England? Possibly Watts Dyke as the border (Crispen Lane) See old map. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/b3...33c23244bd.jpg
The Battle of Chester circa 615/616 marked the beginning of a long struggle between the Welsh and English for territory in this part of Wales. During the eighth century, the Anglo-Saxon royal house of Mercia pushed their frontiers westwards and established the earth boundaries of Wat's Dyke and Offa's Dyke to the west of the present city.

During this first period of Mercian advance in the eighth century, the settlement of Wrexham was likely founded on the flat ground above the meadows of the River Gwenfro. The name Wrexham probably comes from the old English for Wryhtel's river meadow.
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Old 27th June 2023, 12.46:29   #1274-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by Bobo99 View Post
With the banter on facebook over why Wrexham play in the English leagues. Was Wrexham Township ever in England? Possibly Watts Dyke as the border (Crispen Lane) See old map. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/b3...33c23244bd.jpg
I have written plenty about this, further back in the thread Bobo. The West of Wats Dyke (Racecourse side) was known as Pura Wallia.
I have added numerous posts regarding the importance of Wat's Dyke and how the remnants of the defensive ditch served as a holloway that divided Marchia Walliae 'The Welsh Marches' from Pura Wallia, although the boundary was not always clearly defined and the territory controlled by the Marcher Lords sometimes diminished.
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Old 27th June 2023, 12.50:13   #1275-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

Attached is a very early photo of the uniform of The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteers.
The photo is a cdv card of a young Phillip Yorke of Erddig, with his elbow resting on a cabinet, next to his cap, which was adorned with the crowned, stringed, bugle badge of the rifle regiment.
CDV’s were photo’s that were used as an early kind of business card, which were exchanged between friends and colleagues.
Phillip Yorke was the son of Captain Simon Yorke (JP) of Erddig- who was one of the original founders of The Bromfield Volunteer Rifle Corps in the summer of 1859. The Bromfield Corps was initially comprised of 2 companies- The Wrexham Volunteer Rifles (1st Company) and The Ruabon Volunteer Rifles (2nd Company), but the name was changed to The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteer Corps in 1860 as additional companies were raised in the surrounding towns and villages.
There would eventually be 9 companies- 1st (Wrexham) 2nd (Ruabon) 3rd (Denbigh) 4th (Gresford) 5th (Gwersylt) 6th (Ruthin) 7th (Chirk) 8th (Llanrwst) and 9th (Llangollen) although the town of Wrexham briefly raised a second company in 1861, which was designated as the 9th company, but the company was disbanded shortly after it was formed, and so the Llangollen company would later become the 9th company.
Each of these companies were grouped under The 1st Administrative Battalion of The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteers, which was commanded by Sir Watkin Williams Wynn- the Lieutenant Colonel of the battalion.
Originally, the companies had been trained by The Royal Denbigh Rifle Militia, but in 1881 the volunteers were affiliated to The Royal Welch Fusiliers and re-designated The 1st Volunteer Battalion of The Royal Welch Fusiliers.
An armoury and accommodation for a sergeant was then erected at the bottom end of The Racecourse (where it borders with Crispin Lane) but this was demolished in 1887 when the top end of Crispin Lane was diverted slightly to the west (onto The Racecourse) to accommodate the construction of the new railway bridge and WM&CQ lines.
A new armoury was then constructed nearby, which was know as the headquarters of The Volunteer Brigade of The Royal Welch Fusiliers, and this is still remembered by some of our older fans as the old white farm house that was located at the back of the kop.
In 1908, the 1st Volunteer Battalion became the 4th (Denbighshire) Battalion of The Royal Welch Fusiliers.

Phillip Yorke was born in 1849 and his youth in the photo indicates that the card may date from around 1860, when the War Office sanctioned the use of boys as cadets in the Volunteer Rifle Corps.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Phillip York DRV uniform early 1860's.jpg (124.7 KB, 28 views)
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Old 29th June 2023, 15.01:20   #1276-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by eastsussex View Post
Attached is a very early photo of the uniform of The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteers.
The photo is a cdv card of a young Phillip Yorke of Erddig, with his elbow resting on a cabinet, next to his cap, which was adorned with the crowned, stringed, bugle badge of the rifle regiment.
CDV’s were photo’s that were used as an early kind of business card, which were exchanged between friends and colleagues.
Phillip Yorke was the son of Captain Simon Yorke (JP) of Erddig- who was one of the original founders of The Bromfield Volunteer Rifle Corps in the summer of 1859. The Bromfield Corps was initially comprised of 2 companies- The Wrexham Volunteer Rifles (1st Company) and The Ruabon Volunteer Rifles (2nd Company), but the name was changed to The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteer Corps in 1860 as additional companies were raised in the surrounding towns and villages.
There would eventually be 9 companies- 1st (Wrexham) 2nd (Ruabon) 3rd (Denbigh) 4th (Gresford) 5th (Gwersylt) 6th (Ruthin) 7th (Chirk) 8th (Llanrwst) and 9th (Llangollen) although the town of Wrexham briefly raised a second company in 1861, which was designated as the 9th company, but the company was disbanded shortly after it was formed, and so the Llangollen company would later become the 9th company.
Each of these companies were grouped under The 1st Administrative Battalion of The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteers, which was commanded by Sir Watkin Williams Wynn- the Lieutenant Colonel of the battalion.
Originally, the companies had been trained by The Royal Denbigh Rifle Militia, but in 1881 the volunteers were affiliated to The Royal Welch Fusiliers and re-designated The 1st Volunteer Battalion of The Royal Welch Fusiliers.
An armoury and accommodation for a sergeant was then erected at the bottom end of The Racecourse (where it borders with Crispin Lane) but this was demolished in 1887 when the top end of Crispin Lane was diverted slightly to the west (onto The Racecourse) to accommodate the construction of the new railway bridge and WM&CQ lines.
A new armoury was then constructed nearby, which was know as the headquarters of The Volunteer Brigade of The Royal Welch Fusiliers, and this is still remembered by some of our older fans as the old white farm house that was located at the back of the kop.
In 1908, the 1st Volunteer Battalion became the 4th (Denbighshire) Battalion of The Royal Welch Fusiliers.

Phillip Yorke was born in 1849 and his youth in the photo indicates that the card may date from around 1860, when the War Office sanctioned the use of boys as cadets in the Volunteer Rifle Corps.
Wrexham Cricket Club later followed the example that had been set by the rifle volunteers, as they too changed their name to The Denbighshire County Cricket Club in April 1864.
The cricket club had been founded by Sir Watkin’s father in the early 1830’s, but with the huge cultural changes that had swept across the country in the late 1850’s/early 60’s, the cricket club decided to extend their appeal by selecting an additional 6 new vice presidents from the surrounding area. This brought additional funding to the club and also improved the quality of the team, which could now be selected from a much wider pool of cricketers from the towns and villages outside of the immediate area. The changes attracted criticism in the local press, as a number of cricketers complained that the club should only be represented by sportsmen who lived in the town, but the introduction of the rifle volunteers as a single administrative battalion had consolidated the regiment into a much larger group of men who regularly trained and paraded together on The Racecourse, and as the majority of those men were also cricketers, then it was decided that best option for the cricket club would be to morph into a county cricket club.
At the same time, a new craze for athletic sport was sweeping across the country. Initiated by William Penny Brookes in the small Shropshire town of Much Wenlock in the late 1840’s, the Olympian Society had been promoting the use of education and athletic sport to improve the health of the nation, and particularly the wellbeing of the working class. By the early 1860’s, other towns and cities had started to host their own Olympic festivals, which then created competition between neighbouring regions as civic leaders scrambled to raise the funds that were needed to provide the facilities to accommodate this new fashion in their own area. Meanwhile, The Temperance Movement had also gained massive traction across the nation, as they lobbied civic leaders and national politicians to restrict the sale of alcohol and provide public facilities that were more conducive to healthier lifestyles. Their lobbying paid off, as Parliament introduced the first reading of the Sunday Closing Bill in March 1863, which then prompted a meeting to be held on 2nd June at The Music Hall in Wrexham, where 300 residents unanimously passed a resolution for the Mayor to forward a petition in favour of the Bill to The House of Commons.
Some of those people who attended that meeting would later argue that the church and teetotal groups all promoted temperance, but they did not provide alternative activities for the masses. The cricket clubs provided an outlet for the summer months, but there were still no public facilities for athletic sport in Wrexham in the evenings and in the winter, and so the group formed their own organisation ‘The United Volunteer Services Club’ in October 1863, specifically to address that issue.
Evan Morris, Charles Edward Kershaw and Joseph Wilbraham Clark had attended the meeting in the town hall and they were also members of the original group that founded The United Volunteer Services Club. They were all rifle volunteers and influential members of the cricket club who continued to lobby for the provision of facilities for the public to enjoy athletic sport in the evenings and in the winter months, when the cricket season had ended.

At the end of season dinner at The Turf Hotel on 8th October 1864, the chairman and cricket club secretary- Edward Manners announced his intention to buy a football in the course of the week and stated that he expected a good many down to the field on Saturday.
Wrexham Football and Athletic Club was founded with its first known game against The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade on The Racecourse on 22nd October 1864.

The United Volunteer Services Club was disbanded soon after, as it had achieved its aim.

You will not find this history of the football club in many places outside of RedPassion. This is my own research and I have added proofs and links to all of my claims on the preceding pages.

Last edited by eastsussex; 29th June 2023 at 15.14:04..
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Old 29th June 2023, 15.16:36   #1277-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

I'm pretty sure it was Edward Manners that was instrumental instrumental in changing name of cricket club from Wrexham to Denbighshire cricket club..⁹
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Old 29th June 2023, 16.00:14   #1278-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham

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Originally Posted by eastsussex View Post
Hi WAL
It was Lord Edwin Hill-Trevor of Brynkinalt who put forward the motion to form a new club and incorporate it with the Wrexham Cricket Club on 29th April 1864.
Sir Watkin was the new President of this club and Lord Edwin was one of 12 Vice-Presidents.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...26/4579131/35/

It was Edwin’s team that played against the team of another Vice President- A Peel Esq. in the cricket clubs first ever game on that day


The Wrexham Cricket Club of the previous season had 6 Presidents, all under the patronage of Sir Watkin Williams Wynn

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...944/4587945/1/

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...56/3748560/24/

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...28/4579333/23/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_...t_Baron_Trevor


Later meetings would show that Sir Watkin and Townsend had bought new money into the club in the form of an additional 6 vice-presidents, in order to spread the influence of club, and by 1865, there were complaints in the local newspapers about the number of cricketers who lived outside of the county (Flintshire, Cheshire, Shropshire etc- as well as a professional from England) although, as you say, the DCCC was indeed a new version of the Wrexham Cricket Club. But it was formulated as a new club, with its administration being accountable to this new group of contributors; and many of those did not reside in Denbighshire.

I don’t doubt that Edward Manners was heavily involved in the formation of this new version of the cricket club, although I cannot find any evidence in the archives to show that it was created, due to his suggestion: only that he was regularly credited with greatly improving, both the Wrexham Cricket Club and the DCCC, as well as its facilities. But that point is not really a contention in my mind and he may well have suggested it.
I also don’t doubt that Edward Manners was the face of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club when the club was first founded. We have his speech recorded in the newspaper archives, which clearly states that ‘there is a great want for amusement in this ‘town’ in winter’ and that he ‘intended to buy a football in the course of the week’: thereby giving rise to the formation of the football club.
And so the birth of the football club has typically been recorded as ‘the football club was founded by Edward Manners in October 1864 in order to provide the cricket club with sporting activity for the winter months’.
On the surface, this is true; but Edward Manners did not say that there is a great want for amusement in this cricket club in wintertime; instead, he said that there is a great want in this ‘town’ in winter. Of course, he may have just mistaken his words and he actually meant that he wanted to find something for the cricketers to do in winter. But all of the information from that period shows that he was actually referring to the town itself- i.e. the football club was founded as one aspect of an athletic club that was being introduced in the town to give the residents something beneficial to do in the winter. This was a part of a huge social movement that had been sweeping across Britain for a number of years, for the purpose of keeping the masses off the pop, while trying to educate the labouring class and improving their health and well-being through structured sporting activity. The aims of this movement resonated in Wrexham, in particular, because of the social disorder that had led to the abandonment of the Wrexham Races in 1857. At that time, towns, cities and villages across the country were all scrambling to find the funds needed to build new libraries, reading rooms and gymnasiums; and the nearby town of Oswestry had already started to build their own. This had caused some consternation in Wrexham as The Provincial Insurance Company had also built a reading room and gymnasium into their offices on the high street in early 1863. The insurance company was widely applauded in the press, but the facilities were only open to the insurance company’s employees, and so a new organisation ‘The United Volunteer Services Club’ was set up in Wrexham in October 1863, specifically to bring athletic sport to the masses in winter. Their inaugural meeting was reported in the Wrexham Advertiser.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...80/4587985/24/

The editor of the Advertiser- Joseph Lindop, followed this up a week later with his own editorial piece, which called for the construction of a public hall with a reading room and gymnasium that would be open to public use.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...989/4587993/8/

He was a member of the cricket club, as were Evan Morris, Charles Edward Kershaw and Joseph Wilbraham Clark. The latter were all founding members of The United Volunteer Services Club, who were campaigning to bring athletic sport to the town. Edward Manners, by contrast, was a joint honorary secretary of the cricket club and also a secretary for the Floral and Horticultural Society, as well as being an aid to Joseph Wilbraham Clark, who was an auditor for the borough, although Edward Manners was employed in a number of different roles over the years. But his name does not appear anywhere in relation to this earlier movement to bring athletic sport to the town, although it is this movement, which undoubtedly, in my mind, gave rise to the birth of the football club.
Edward Manners appears to have picked up the batten, for sure, but this was initiated and driven by others, including the people as mentioned above. This is not intended to belittle Edward Manners’ role in founding the football club or his undoubted efforts to push the cricket, football and athletic clubs forward, but I think that the earlier description of how and why the football club was founded, is lacking in context. When we look a bit deeper, we find that the football club was founded because of the reasons I have listed above, which were initiated and driven by other members of the town and cricket club, who have not previously been credited for their contributions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasanActonlad View Post
I'm pretty sure it was Edward Manners that was instrumental instrumental in changing name of cricket club from Wrexham to Denbighshire cricket club..⁹
Hi WAL, I have searched for Edward Manners obituary and cannot find it anywhere, only a later article, which stated that 'from reports it would appear that he was resposible for changing the name to The Denbighshire County Cricket Club' but I cannot find the said reports either.
I am aware that Lord Edwin Hill-Trevor of Brynkinalt put forward the motion to form a new club and incorporate it with the Wrexham Cricket Club at a meeting on 29th April 1864. He was one of the new vice presidents of the club and was one of the captains in the new clubs first game.
Edward Manners being the honorary secretary would obviously be involved 'and it may well be that he suggested the name change'. Its just that I cant find anything to collaborate that.
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