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Old 29th February 2020, 18.37:37   #694-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by Inside Left View Post
Much of this concrete step work was, as i understood, carried out by the then supporters association. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.
At the top of the photo one can see the white gables of the old house that was situated to the rear of the Kop bank. That house and outbuildings housed an army surplus store under the management of Major Taylor - A fearsome character to some - But as a youngster I found him an ok guy.
Yes, I remember you posting about this earlier in the thread IL. I believe that it may have also been a farmhouse too at somepoint in time?
The original army surplus store was an arms store, built towards the end of the 19th Century, which was said to have been an ugly building, situated on a plot of land off Crispin Lane at the back of Nevs Garage. The headquarters and armoury of The Volunteer Force of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers was demolished to accommodate a diversion on Crispin Lane, when the railway bridge was built in 1867/68, and so I assume that the army then moved into the farmhouse. There had been other timber buildings erected on the course by the military, at least, since the early 19th Century.

The concrete terracing was part of a 5 year ground improvement programme that also included a 250 seater new stand next to The Turf and a concrete retaining wall around the pitch, intended to increase ground capacity, which was built by contractors at a cost of £3,500; paid for, as usual, by The Supporters Association

Last edited by eastsussexred; 29th February 2020 at 18.46:21..
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Old 29th February 2020, 21.39:16   #695-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

As I recall there were some old nissen huts near the house. I might have an old OS map of the area, must search! They would show on such maps. I appreciate you need facts rather than dim and distant memories .
I do recall the Major giving me an old tin helmet, a couple of field radios and other odds and end and they came from one of the huts.

Last edited by Inside Left; 29th February 2020 at 21.42:46..
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Old 1st March 2020, 10.25:38   #696-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by Inside Left View Post
As I recall there were some old nissen huts near the house. I might have an old OS map of the area, must search! They would show on such maps. I appreciate you need facts rather than dim and distant memories .
I do recall the Major giving me an old tin helmet, a couple of field radios and other odds and end and they came from one of the huts.
Nah, I have my own dim and distant memories of that end of the ground too Inside Left and as an amateur anthropologist and historian I find that it is really the human element, which gives history its value. It sometimes feels a bit strange to me when these old memories suddenly drift back into consciousness, but I would imagine that most people could quite easily understand and visualise your excitement as a young lad in the1950’s/60’s? when that Major gave you an old tin helmet and field radio's from the army stores.
I regularly think of the numerous generations of families and individuals who have stood on the kop and other parts of the ground over the years and invested their hopes and dreams each Saturday afternoon, and I wonder about their lives. In many ways, everyday life is almost unrecognisable today, in comparison to the way things were, even when we were young, but the further back in time we look, the harder life was for the generations that came before us. This thread started with a post about a man who played football on the fields off Crispin Lane in 1864, but he was dead less than 2 years later, aged just 35. Another of our founding players was kicking a ball around on that same day, but was committed to a lunatic asylum just 14 months later, where he remained for the next 47 years of his life, and was only released after his death in 1912- his suffering is difficult to even imagine. It is the human aspect which drives me to research and write. We should not forget those who came before us.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1948.jpg (101.2 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg 1949 Racecourse.jpg (113.3 KB, 51 views)

Last edited by eastsussexred; 1st March 2020 at 10.36:53..
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Old 2nd March 2020, 09.03:07   #697-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

What a brilliant thread this is. I wonder will it lead to a book or even a series of talks at the Racecourse in time?Diolch to all.
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Old 9th March 2020, 08.42:24   #698-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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What a brilliant thread this is. I wonder will it lead to a book or even a series of talks at the Racecourse in time?Diolch to all.
Morning Dafgog, There is still a lot of research needed before a comprehensive history of The Racecourse can be published, in my opinion; for example, we now know that The Turf Tavern was built between 1793 and 1819, but cant find an exact date; likewise, we also now know that race meetings had been taking place in Wrexham since the 1600's with a new course set out for races in 1738 to 1740, but cannot yet confirm that these races took place on Y Cae Ras. Additionally, it would be preferable to be able to place Y Cae Ras in an historical context in relation to Wat's Dyke, which borders its eastern edge, although my own theory would place the construction of the dyke after The Battle of Conwy in 881AD, whereas the latest archaeological evidence from 2006 suggests a period around the 820's. Aside from this, it would also be preferable to be able to prove where the name 'Crispin' came from, and so I have also been working on this, but there is still a lot of work to do before it is ready for a book (imo)
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Old 15th March 2020, 20.48:33   #699-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
Yes, I remember you posting about this earlier in the thread IL. I believe that it may have also been a farmhouse too at somepoint in time?
The original army surplus store was an arms store, built towards the end of the 19th Century, which was said to have been an ugly building, situated on a plot of land off Crispin Lane at the back of Nevs Garage. The headquarters and armoury of The Volunteer Force of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers was demolished to accommodate a diversion on Crispin Lane, when the railway bridge was built in 1867/68, and so I assume that the army then moved into the farmhouse. There had been other timber buildings erected on the course by the military, at least, since the early 19th Century.

The concrete terracing was part of a 5 year ground improvement programme that also included a 250 seater new stand next to The Turf and a concrete retaining wall around the pitch, intended to increase ground capacity, which was built by contractors at a cost of £3,500; paid for, as usual, by The Supporters Association
The building I refer to was a peculiar structure that drew much local criticism due to its design, which was built as an arms store for the 1st Denbighshire Volunteers and a residence for the drill instructor- Sergeant William Jones, in 1878.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...99/4578803/20/

The following year, The 1st Denbighshire Reserve Volunteers received permission from The War Office to split into two companies

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...30/3855035/32/

But this building was demolished when Crispin Lane was diverted to make way for the excavation and construction of the railway bridge on Mold Road in 1886/87.
The building was just one of many, mostly-timber, military structures that had been built over the years on Y Cae Ras, including Mess Halls, Billets, Offices and Latrines, for Militia, Volunteers, Cavalry and Fusiliers since the end of the 18th Century, and the course itself was used extensively by the military in the 19th and early to mid 20th Centuries, with practice and drills taking place on most days of the week at different periods in both Centuries.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...52/4594355/42/

Although the earliest known military connection most likely dates back to a garrison of Parliamentary troops who were stationed in Stansty in 1645.

It would appear that after the peculiar structure was demolished in 1886/87, the 1st DRV moved their headquarters into the old farmhouse and this was later taken over by The Volunteer Brigade of The Royal Welsh Fusiliers. The Fusilier volunteers became the first volunteer force in Britain ever to be sent into active service.
Having volunteered for service in South Africa, at least ten men from each of five companies of the 1st Brigade were selected for service at The Crispin Lane Headquarters on 8th January 1900.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...90/4594197/67/

Coincidentally, when thinking about the location of the headquarters on Crispin Lane, the new companies were mobilised in Wrexham on the 22nd January 1900- a day before the start of a 2-day battle which resulted in the death of 243 British soldiers and the defeat of British forces on a hilltop near Ladysmith in South Africa. The hilltop was the highest point in the region, being comprised of steep rock terracing, known locally as spioen (meaning ‘look out’ in Africaans) and kop (meaning ‘hill; or ‘outcropping’). The battle became known as The Battle of The Spion Kop, which uses the Dutch word ‘spion’ rather than the Africaan word ‘spioen’ and was adopted by a local newsman at Woolwich Arsenal’s Manor Ground in 1904, who likened the silhouette of fans standing on a newly raised bank of earth to soldiers standing on top of the hill at The Battle of The Spion Kop. Two years later, Liverpool Echo sports editor Ernest Edwards wrote about a new open air embankment at Anfield “This huge wall of earth has been termed 'Spion Kop', and no doubt this apt name will always be used in future in referring to this spot".

Evan Morris was a Major in A Company of The 1st Volunteer Battalion of The Royal Welsh Fusiliers for many years and most of our founding players where volunteers in either the militia, fusilieers or cavalry, as mentioned earlier in this thread
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File Type: jpg Presentation of colours on the Racecourse C1905.jpg (120.5 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by eastsussexred; 15th March 2020 at 21.02:17..
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Old 18th March 2020, 11.46:46   #700-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

As Above

‘The diverted road, which will form part of Crispin Lane, is being constructed through the garden of The Turf Hotel, and side-by-side with it will run the line and rails of the extension. That wonderful specimen of architecture- the Volunteer Armoury is unfortunately to be removed and lost to view. Some perhaps will be inclined to say “ it never would be missed”, but still, even this has its admirers.’ (March 1878)

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...87/4592392/31/


https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...14/4592419/30/ (April 1878)

The headquarters and armoury then appear to have been moved into the old farmhouse, although there was also at least one drill shed left standing after Crispin Lane had been diverted.

Last edited by eastsussexred; 18th March 2020 at 11.51:57..
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Old 18th March 2020, 12.01:49   #701-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Correction- built in 1878 and demolished in March 1887 and April 1887

Last edited by eastsussexred; 18th March 2020 at 12.03:36..
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Old 18th March 2020, 14.46:34   #702-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
Morning Dafgog, There is still a lot of research needed before a comprehensive history of The Racecourse can be published, in my opinion; for example, we now know that The Turf Tavern was built between 1793 and 1819, but cant find an exact date; likewise, we also now know that race meetings had been taking place in Wrexham since the 1600's with a new course set out for races in 1738 to 1740, but cannot yet confirm that these races took place on Y Cae Ras. Additionally, it would be preferable to be able to place Y Cae Ras in an historical context in relation to Wat's Dyke, which borders its eastern edge, although my own theory would place the construction of the dyke after The Battle of Conwy in 881AD, whereas the latest archaeological evidence from 2006 suggests a period around the 820's. Aside from this, it would also be preferable to be able to prove where the name 'Crispin' came from, and so I have also been working on this, but there is still a lot of work to do before it is ready for a book (imo)
This has been my favourite thread for ages, I'm amazed at posters knowledge, their ability to research and have personally learnt a great deal - am really grateful, thank you.

I have long been interested in Offa's Dyke and Wat's Dyke and the relationship between them. It's so very strange that so little is known about something so big. I was recently asked to explain why, when Richard 1st of England granted a charter to Hereford in 1189, which is 16 miles east of the Dyke, he referred to it as 'Hereford in Wales.'
I couldn't.

Last edited by BillEBadass; 18th March 2020 at 14.48:26..
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