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Old 31st July 2020, 12.37:36   #791-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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Originally Posted by Rhosymedre Red View Post
I could be wrong but i think it was Wales V Scotland. 1876?
I believe that these photo's were taken as snapshots of Wales v Ireland BFI cinefim, from 1906, RR, as previously posted earlier in the thread.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/...06-1906-online

I think that the film was initially posted in its original version, which is longer than the film on the link above, but I have taken a snapshot of the film 1minute and 4seconds into the film, and if you look at the last of the three photo's that you posted, you will see that it is the same as attached below.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Wales v Ireland 1906.jpg (45.3 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by eastsussexred; 31st July 2020 at 12.39:25..
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Old 31st July 2020, 12.50:34   #792-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
Attached is a blown up section of a tithe map, which shows the original two sections of The Turf Tavern (701 on map), as well as the associated garden (700), before the two sections were combined as one public house. The L-shaped building was the original Turf Tavern (built sometime between 1793 and 1819) and the square building (which is now the taller section of The Turf Hotel, where the bar is) was known as The Grandstand, due to the balcony which overlooked the finishing post on the racecourse.
The tithe map was produced between 1838 and 1850, although the registered tenant of The Turf Tavern (both sections) The Racecourse and the associated gardens on this map was listed as John Tench, who died in 1849, and so obviously the map must have been drawn 1849 or earlier.
The Grandstand was built sometime before 1833, specifically to entertain the more-well-healed clientele, who could wine and dine in style without having to mingle with the chavs in the tavern and out on the course, although the two buildings were later joined together. Initially, the buildings were joined only at first floor level, with lintels spanning the two properties and providing an undercroft at ground floor level, with a connecting room above. This work must have taken place prior to 1874 as a map from this date (attached) shows the two buildings joined as one, although The Grandstand still retained its name and status as a kind of special-function-rooms, at least up until the 1880’s. But a snapshot from the Wales v Ireland game of 1906 (attached) shows that the buildings were still only attached on first floor level at that time, and so the undercroft was later bricked up to join the buildings at ground floor level and form the lounge area, most likely during the extensive ground improvement works in 1912/13. At the same time, the external skin of the taller section was also replaced with a new fašade, as later photos show the Turf Hotel’s external structure, pretty much as it is today.
I also think that the taller section of The Turf Hotel was originally constructed as a square building (as shown on the tithe map attachment a few posts back) and was originally known as just another part of The Turf Tavern.
There are later newspaper articles which refer to people dining in ‘the large room at The Turf Tavern’ and I believe that these articles reflect an earlier name used for this side of the tavern; i.e. before this section was renamed as The Grandstand.
The earliest reference that I can find to this section being called The Grandstand, comes from a newspaper report of cricketers having dinner in ‘The Grandstand’ in 1841, and so I believe that as the popularity of the races increased, a decision was made to add a balcony to the taller section, at the end of 1830’s, which resulted in the addition of a canted bay and a balcony (as attachment 1) and the taller section subsequently was renamed as The Grandstand

I also believe that The Turf Tavern garden (also shown on another attachment a few posts back) was originally a field, which belonged to the estate of the house known as The Crispin.
There is a map from 1793-1795 (previously posted) which shows a diagonal boundary line/hedgerow from The Crispin to another very small plot of land which had been sectioned off from the rest of The Racecourse. This smaller plot was the location where The Turf Tavern was built. I have added the boundary line on a later map (attached)
It is difficult to envisage now, because the Mold Road end of Crispin Lane was diverted slightly to the west (towards The Racecourse) in the 1890’s, but back in the 18th Century, Crispin Lane was just a four foot wide track way, which had evolved on the silted up ditch of Wat’s Dyke. This lane had served as a traditional thoroughfare, which connected the original Rhosddu Lane with Hope Street (now Mold Road) and The Racecourse extended right up to the hedge line of Wat’s Dyke’s ditch/Crispin Lane. The lane became known, locally, as a lovers lane and was made more accessible with a gravel surface in the 1850’s, but the diversion works in the 1890’s swallowed up the old Turf Tavern garden, which at that time, still backed onto the original lane. After the diversion works an L shaped area of land, which was comprised of two different plots, remained on The Racecourse side of Crispin Lane. The first plot, which faced onto Crispin Lane, had previously been the location of the armoury and headquarters of the volunteer force of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, which was demolished during the diversion works and was sold as a builders yard. The second plot faced onto Mold Road (where the charity shop is today) and was sold to the same buyer at the same auction. (as Attachment 2).
The land on which the railway was built, was at one time known as ‘Crispin Field’ and there was another field, beyond the Yale Stand, which was know as Crispin Croft.
There was also a field known as ‘Crispin Meadow’ on Stansty Park and another Crispin Field between Stansty Lodge and Plas Coch, although I imagine that the field between The Crispin and The Turf Tavern (including the Turf Tavern Garden) as shown on the attachment, would also have been known as Crispin Field at some point in the distant past.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg attachment 1 CANTED BAY.jpg (146.8 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg attachment 2.jpg (171.1 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by eastsussexred; 31st July 2020 at 12.57:06..
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Old 31st July 2020, 13.24:52   #793-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
I believe that these photo's were taken as snapshots of Wales v Ireland BFI cinefim, from 1906, RR, as previously posted earlier in the thread.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/...06-1906-online

I think that the film was initially posted in its original version, which is longer than the film on the link above, but I have taken a snapshot of the film 1minute and 4seconds into the film, and if you look at the last of the three photo's that you posted, you will see that it is the same as attached below.
Your right, why i put 1876 i don't know. There was a program on SC4 the other night called the History of Welsh Football, it did show the film, i took a few screenshots of it. It was only on for half an hour and my Welsh isn't great i'm ashamed to say.
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Old 1st August 2020, 09.16:11   #794-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
As Above

‘The diverted road, which will form part of Crispin Lane, is being constructed through the garden of The Turf Hotel, and side-by-side with it will run the line and rails of the extension. That wonderful specimen of architecture- the Volunteer Armoury is unfortunately to be removed and lost to view. Some perhaps will be inclined to say “ it never would be missed”, but still, even this has its admirers.’ (March 1878)

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...87/4592392/31/


https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...14/4592419/30/ (April 1878)

The headquarters and armoury then appear to have been moved into the old farmhouse, although there was also at least one drill shed left standing after Crispin Lane had been diverted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussexred View Post
I also think that the taller section of The Turf Hotel was originally constructed as a square building (as shown on the tithe map attachment a few posts back) and was originally known as just another part of The Turf Tavern.
There are later newspaper articles which refer to people dining in ‘the large room at The Turf Tavern’ and I believe that these articles reflect an earlier name used for this side of the tavern; i.e. before this section was renamed as The Grandstand.
The earliest reference that I can find to this section being called The Grandstand, comes from a newspaper report of cricketers having dinner in ‘The Grandstand’ in 1841, and so I believe that as the popularity of the races increased, a decision was made to add a balcony to the taller section, at the end of 1830’s, which resulted in the addition of a canted bay and a balcony (as attachment 1) and the taller section subsequently was renamed as The Grandstand

I also believe that The Turf Tavern garden (also shown on another attachment a few posts back) was originally a field, which belonged to the estate of the house known as The Crispin.
There is a map from 1793-1795 (previously posted) which shows a diagonal boundary line/hedgerow from The Crispin to another very small plot of land which had been sectioned off from the rest of The Racecourse. This smaller plot was the location where The Turf Tavern was built. I have added the boundary line on a later map (attached)
It is difficult to envisage now, because the Mold Road end of Crispin Lane was diverted slightly to the west (towards The Racecourse) in the 1890’s, but back in the 18th Century, Crispin Lane was just a four foot wide track way, which had evolved on the silted up ditch of Wat’s Dyke. This lane had served as a traditional thoroughfare, which connected the original Rhosddu Lane with Hope Street (now Mold Road) and The Racecourse extended right up to the hedge line of Wat’s Dyke’s ditch/Crispin Lane. The lane became known, locally, as a lovers lane and was made more accessible with a gravel surface in the 1850’s, but the diversion works in the 1890’s swallowed up the old Turf Tavern garden, which at that time, still backed onto the original lane. After the diversion works an L shaped area of land, which was comprised of two different plots, remained on The Racecourse side of Crispin Lane. The first plot, which faced onto Crispin Lane, had previously been the location of the armoury and headquarters of the volunteer force of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, which was demolished during the diversion works and was sold as a builders yard. The second plot faced onto Mold Road (where the charity shop is today) and was sold to the same buyer at the same auction. (as Attachment 2).
The land on which the railway was built, was at one time known as ‘Crispin Field’ and there was another field, beyond the Yale Stand, which was know as Crispin Croft.
There was also a field known as ‘Crispin Meadow’ on Stansty Park and another Crispin Field between Stansty Lodge and Plas Coch, although I imagine that the field between The Crispin and The Turf Tavern (including the Turf Tavern Garden) as shown on the attachment, would also have been known as Crispin Field at some point in the distant past.
Correction- the diversion works were started in 1878

Last edited by eastsussexred; 1st August 2020 at 09.19:47..
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