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Old 14th November 2020, 15.41:39   #821-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

With the club now in the global spotlight and R&R publicly promoting the heritage and history of the club, I think that the least we can do is for the club to update and promote the correct information with regard to our history.
Until very recently, the club was advertising that The Racecourse was built in 1807, but as I have shown throughout this thread, The Wrexham Races were being advertised ‘on the new course’ since ‘at least’ 1800, with other evidence suggesting that the course was revamped at the end of the 18th Century, possibly in relation to Sir W. W. Wynn establishing The Wrexham Yeomanry Cavalry in 1795. But even earlier, The Wrexham Races were being advertised ‘on the new course’ from 1738, and I have added plenty of information throughout this thread, which at the very least indicates that these races may have taken place at Y Cae Ras.
In terms of the sporting heritage of the town and history of the club, this is very relevant.

Likewise, the history of The Turf Hotel is equally as relevant, because, as the name implies, The Turf is intrinsic to the stadium, and as I have shown throughout this thread, The Turf Tavern was in existence since ‘at least’ 1819; which as far as I am aware, makes The Turf Hotel, the oldest purpose built public house at any sport stadium in the world. Again, this has a great deal of significance when considering the history and sporting heritage of the town. Hopefully, with the media spotlight on the club, Coflein will at least update their information.
https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/40621...d-road-wrexham

The Turf Tavern was not built between 1840 and 1844 and knocked down by Jack Scott in the 1860’s, as stated on their website. Scott was just a boy in the 1860’s and did not come to Wrexham until the end of the 19th Century. The Turf Hotel is comprised of two public houses- The Grandstand c 1830 and The Turf Tavern c 1795-1819, but neither of these public houses were ever demolished, but rather conjoined as the existing Turf Hotel around 1913.

Another mistake that I occasionally read is that Edward Manners was the first President of Wrexham Football Club.
Manners was the honourable secretary of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club on its inception in 1864, who sometimes took the ‘chair’ and Charles Edward Kershaw was the Vice Chairman of the Club,
Edward Manners was also the Chairman and Honourable Secretary of the cricket club, which had previously been known as The Wrexham Cricket Club, but in 1864 was known as The Denbighshire County Cricket Club. Sir W.W. Wynn was the President of the cricket club and C.E. Kershaw also frequently took the chair
William Henry Prichard was the first president of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club.
Prichard was a clerk for The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company and a volunteer in The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade, who played for the fire brigade against 10 men of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club in our first ever game. But as the football club grew to 100 members in that first season, Prichard took the role of the first president of the football club.

Additionally, while it can be said to be true that the football club was founded by The Denbighshire County Cricket Club, this statement is a little bit misleading, because it is more correct to say that the football club was founded by members of the cricket club and particularly those members who also founded The United Volunteer Services Club. The UVSC was founded in October 1863, specifically for the purpose of providing athletic sport for the townsfolk, with two members in particular- Charles Edward Kershaw and Evan Morris using their influence within the cricket club to bring new forms of athletic sport to The Racecourse.
After the football and athletic club was founded in October 1864, the UVSC was disbanded, as it has achieved its aim, while C. E. Kershaw would take up the role of Vice Chairman of the football Club and Evan Morris would later accept the role of club President.

Another misconception appears to be that there was no relationship between the disbanding of horseracing in Wrexham and the football club.
Without the withdrawal of horse racing in the town, there would not have been a football club, or at least, not Wrexham Football and Athletic Club.

In 1857, Sir W.W. Wynn withdrew his support from The Wrexham Races, due to the drunkenness and public disorder that marred each race meeting and although a race meeting was permitted in 1858, this was the last meeting of that period. Fierce debates followed as shopkeepers and publicans tried to have the races re-established, but the church and a growing temperance movement held sway, and so it was amidst this atmosphere that organisations such as The United Volunteer Services Club were founded to try to bring healthier pastimes for the masses of working class people from the town and surrounding area: hence, Wrexham Football and Athletic Club was founded in 1864.
Even so, horse racing had played a major role in the town for hundreds of years, and despite reports online and in books that horse racing was disbanded until the 1870’s and some reports which state that the sport did not return until the 1890’s, pony racing was actually re-introduced on The Racecourse just a year after the football club was founded, and Cavalry horse racing continued as usual.
The football club was founded as a football and athletic club, with profits made during the football season to be invested in prizes for an athletic sports event at the end of each season. Some years there were two athletic sports days on The Racecourse but in November of 1865, donkey races, pony races and Galloway races were added to the sports events. The horse racing influence increased year on year, until 1873 when The Wrexham Races were completely revived under Jockey Club Rules, and the athletics events began to be separated into its own meeting.


The first athletic sports day in association with the football club took place on The Racecourse on 8th May 1865, resulting in the now-famous trophy for a hopping race, which was won and presented to football club founder- Charles Edward Kershaw.
https://www.footballhistory.org/club/wrexham.html

Hopefully R&R will be able to influence the powers that be to promote the history and heritage of the town and club, because I have found that it is like trying to bang your head against a brick wall.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CE Kershaw first prize.jpg (183.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Pony and Galloway racing on The racecourse November1865.jpg (119.1 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by eastsussex; 14th November 2020 at 15.54:14..
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Old 14th November 2020, 19.22:28   #822-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussex View Post
With the club now in the global spotlight and R&R publicly promoting the heritage and history of the club, I think that the least we can do is for the club to update and promote the correct information with regard to our history.
Until very recently, the club was advertising that The Racecourse was built in 1807, but as I have shown throughout this thread, The Wrexham Races were being advertised ‘on the new course’ since ‘at least’ 1800, with other evidence suggesting that the course was revamped at the end of the 18th Century, possibly in relation to Sir W. W. Wynn establishing The Wrexham Yeomanry Cavalry in 1795. But even earlier, The Wrexham Races were being advertised ‘on the new course’ from 1738, and I have added plenty of information throughout this thread, which at the very least indicates that these races may have taken place at Y Cae Ras.
In terms of the sporting heritage of the town and history of the club, this is very relevant.

Likewise, the history of The Turf Hotel is equally as relevant, because, as the name implies, The Turf is intrinsic to the stadium, and as I have shown throughout this thread, The Turf Tavern was in existence since ‘at least’ 1819; which as far as I am aware, makes The Turf Hotel, the oldest purpose built public house at any sport stadium in the world. Again, this has a great deal of significance when considering the history and sporting heritage of the town. Hopefully, with the media spotlight on the club, Coflein will at least update their information.
https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/40621...d-road-wrexham

The Turf Tavern was not built between 1840 and 1844 and knocked down by Jack Scott in the 1860’s, as stated on their website. Scott was just a boy in the 1860’s and did not come to Wrexham until the end of the 19th Century. The Turf Hotel is comprised of two public houses- The Grandstand c 1830 and The Turf Tavern c 1795-1819, but neither of these public houses were ever demolished, but rather conjoined as the existing Turf Hotel around 1913.

Another mistake that I occasionally read is that Edward Manners was the first President of Wrexham Football Club.
Manners was the honourable secretary of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club on its inception in 1864, who sometimes took the ‘chair’ and Charles Edward Kershaw was the Vice Chairman of the Club,
Edward Manners was also the Chairman and Honourable Secretary of the cricket club, which had previously been known as The Wrexham Cricket Club, but in 1864 was known as The Denbighshire County Cricket Club. Sir W.W. Wynn was the President of the cricket club and C.E. Kershaw also frequently took the chair
William Henry Prichard was the first president of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club.
Prichard was a clerk for The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company and a volunteer in The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade, who played for the fire brigade against 10 men of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club in our first ever game. But as the football club grew to 100 members in that first season, Prichard took the role of the first president of the football club.

Additionally, while it can be said to be true that the football club was founded by The Denbighshire County Cricket Club, this statement is a little bit misleading, because it is more correct to say that the football club was founded by members of the cricket club and particularly those members who also founded The United Volunteer Services Club. The UVSC was founded in October 1863, specifically for the purpose of providing athletic sport for the townsfolk, with two members in particular- Charles Edward Kershaw and Evan Morris using their influence within the cricket club to bring new forms of athletic sport to The Racecourse.
After the football and athletic club was founded in October 1864, the UVSC was disbanded, as it has achieved its aim, while C. E. Kershaw would take up the role of Vice Chairman of the football Club and Evan Morris would later accept the role of club President.

Another misconception appears to be that there was no relationship between the disbanding of horseracing in Wrexham and the football club.
Without the withdrawal of horse racing in the town, there would not have been a football club, or at least, not Wrexham Football and Athletic Club.

In 1857, Sir W.W. Wynn withdrew his support from The Wrexham Races, due to the drunkenness and public disorder that marred each race meeting and although a race meeting was permitted in 1858, this was the last meeting of that period. Fierce debates followed as shopkeepers and publicans tried to have the races re-established, but the church and a growing temperance movement held sway, and so it was amidst this atmosphere that organisations such as The United Volunteer Services Club were founded to try to bring healthier pastimes for the masses of working class people from the town and surrounding area: hence, Wrexham Football and Athletic Club was founded in 1864.
Even so, horse racing had played a major role in the town for hundreds of years, and despite reports online and in books that horse racing was disbanded until the 1870’s and some reports which state that the sport did not return until the 1890’s, pony racing was actually re-introduced on The Racecourse just a year after the football club was founded, and Cavalry horse racing continued as usual.
The football club was founded as a football and athletic club, with profits made during the football season to be invested in prizes for an athletic sports event at the end of each season. Some years there were two athletic sports days on The Racecourse but in November of 1865, donkey races, pony races and Galloway races were added to the sports events. The horse racing influence increased year on year, until 1873 when The Wrexham Races were completely revived under Jockey Club Rules, and the athletics events began to be separated into its own meeting.


The first athletic sports day in association with the football club took place on The Racecourse on 8th May 1865, resulting in the now-famous trophy for a hopping race, which was won and presented to football club founder- Charles Edward Kershaw.
https://www.footballhistory.org/club/wrexham.html

Hopefully R&R will be able to influence the powers that be to promote the history and heritage of the town and club, because I have found that it is like trying to bang your head against a brick wall.
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Old 14th November 2020, 20.46:18   #823-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

A fascinating read Eastsussex.

I wonder do you have a view of Stoke City's 1863 disputed date of origin? (e.g. see https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...nalCode=fsas20 - sorry its just the abstract). If their origin is in fact 1868 as has been widely claimed, it would mean that if Wrexham could get promoted before Notts County, we could claim to be the oldest club in the EFL!
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Old 14th November 2020, 22.34:00   #824-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Add the little matter of the formation of 'a new club' Wrexham Olympic which seems to morph into the present club.
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Old 14th November 2020, 23.41:29   #825-0 (permalink)
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Add the little matter of the formation of 'a new club' Wrexham Olympic which seems to morph into the present club.
Re-naming to Wrexham Olympic was to get round and English FA van.
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Old 15th November 2020, 09.38:20   #826-0 (permalink)
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Re-naming to Wrexham Olympic was to get round and English FA van.
'ban' Yes you are correct and the press reports at the time referred to 'a new club' with many of Wrexhams players moving to 'Olympic' Eventually the 'Olympic' was dropped.

1884 - One of their first matches was played under electric lights on a ground off Grosvenor Rd. The ground was lit for the local horticultural show and used for a football match the following evening. The ground was probably somewhere where the Convent School used to be. Opponents on that day was a team from Ruthin.

Last edited by Inside Left; 15th November 2020 at 09.47:53..
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Old 15th November 2020, 10.02:47   #827-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

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He was the son of the former magistrate and mayor of Wrexham in 1875 (Dr Thomas Eyton Jones) who died in France in 1893. Dr Thomas Eyton Jones was a very well known surgeon in the area and was also the secretary and President of The North Wales Branch of The British Medical Association. Thomas was a surgeon in The Denbighshire Rifle Volunteers and the regimental surgeon of The Wrexham Yeomanry Cavalry
John Arthur Eyton Jones was also a famous surgeon in the area, and he was a Lieutenant surgeon in The 1st and 2nd Volunteer Brigade of The Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who’s headquarters were based on the Crispin Lane end of The Racecourse. He was the President and vice captain of The Wrexham Hockey Club, on its inception in 1897 and also played cricket for The Wrexham Cricket Club in the 1880’s and 90’s. He was the nephew of Sir Edward Samuelson, who was the Lord Mayor of Liverpool in 1862/63 and the great nephew of Sir Rowland Hill, the inventor of the penny post.
He was commonly known by the name of Arthur, and mostly received the title of Dr J.A. Eyton Jones in his medical career. Arthur had three brothers-Thomas (born 1862) Hugh Mortimer (b-1864) Robert (b-1871) and both Thomas and Hugh Mortimer had played in scratch matches for Wrexham FC.
Arthur had been playing for The Hare and Hounds (Wrexham) Football Club since at least 1881 till the end of the 82/83 season, while his brother Thomas (jnr) was also listed as the goalkeeper in the same team. In those days, players were interchangeable between clubs, and The Hare and Hounds, who played on The Racecourse, often served as a feeder club for Wrexham FC, so that players would step in if there were shortages in either team. In the 1883/84 season, Arthur was mostly playing for Wrexham FC, although sometimes would also play for Bootle. He was one of the Wrexham players in the team against Oswestry in the second round of the FA Cup on December 1st 1883, in which crowd trouble led to Wrexham being banned from English FA games. Most of that team were then released from the club as Wrexham reformed as Wrexham Olympic at the end of the season, although Arthur played for Wrexham Olympic against Ruthin at The Racecourse on 30th August 1884, even though he remained on the books of the Hare and Hounds Football Club. This, however, was just a ruse- a safeguard for Eyton Jones against expulsion from English FA games.
When Wrexham reformed into Wrexham Olympic prior to the start of the 1884 season, they just absorbed the Hare and Hounds into the new club, and former Hare and Hounds players like John Arthur Eyton Jones and Herbert Sisson continued to play for Wrexham Olympic. The Hare and Hounds ceased as a football club at the end of the 83/84 season, although it continued as an athletic sport club and a club for hunting. But when objections were raised about Eyton Jones playing in the international match against England in March 1884, he just produced documentation to say that he was on the books of The Hare and Hounds, even though that football club would shortly be absorbed into Wrexham Olympic.

In the 1883/84 season, Albert had played for both Wrexham and Bootle, but from 84 to late 85 he was playing for Bootle, although Olympic may have kept a retainer on him as he would sometimes play in testimonials for Wrexham Olympic on The Racecourse and was listed as a Wrexham Olympic player in all of his international matches, as well as the many county matches which he played for Denbighshire, and was also listed as an Olympic player in the games he played for North Wales against the South.

He also played in a friendly match between representatives of the legal profession in Wrexham and those representing the medical profession in Wrexham at The Racecourse on 9th April 1897. Eyton Jones scored the only goal for the doctors and Thomas Parry Jones Parry- the Wrexham solicitor who later bought The Racecourse, scored a goal for the Legal Profession who won the game by 2 goals to 1
He was declared Bankrupt in 1903.
https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...53/4248059/57/


Wrexham Olympic were formed in August 1884
Quote:
Originally Posted by APJ View Post
A fascinating read Eastsussex.

I wonder do you have a view of Stoke City's 1863 disputed date of origin? (e.g. see https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...nalCode=fsas20 - sorry its just the abstract). If their origin is in fact 1868 as has been widely claimed, it would mean that if Wrexham could get promoted before Notts County, we could claim to be the oldest club in the EFL!
Thanks APJ, that is interesting, but I dont know much about Stoke, other than their claim to have been founded in 1863. I imagine that there would be plenty of arguments made either way as there would always be plenty of grey areas in comparison to the ways that modern clubs function. I tend to imagine the clubs in those days as just being groups of people who were creating clubs due to a new ethos of healthier living that was sweeping through society, with the backing of the establishment, but by modern standards, these clubs would be more akin to Sunday League pub teams nowadays..
The game had been evolving as a codified sport since the 1840’s, with The Cambridge Rules, followed by The Sheffield Rules and finally, the Football Association Rules, which were first penned in 1863 and have been evolving ever since.

From our own perspective, there are two main grey areas- 1869 to 1872, when the club appears to have disappeared; and the Olympic era, when the board and most of the players left the club and advertisements were placed in the local newspaper seeking volunteers to start a new club. However, the latter was far more nuanced than it first appears and was necessary to keep a football club in Wrexham after a scandal which led to the club being banned from the English Association. But as I have explained above, this was a bit of sleight-of-hand diplomacy, which was intended to keep the club alive by gaining re-admission to the English Association. This worked as the English FA readmitted the club in the following season, minus most of their players and their board. The club also added ‘Olympic; after its name, although the club remained on The Racecourse and there was still a continuation of individuals and organisations that had been associated with the earlier club. In effect, it was the same club, but changes had been made to avoid the economic affect of an English FA ban. If this was ever challenged, I feel confident that I could prove enough ongoing associations between the club before the ban and the Olympic era, to show that it was basically the same club.

The 1869-72 issue appears to have occurred for two reasons. Firstly, Sir W.W Wynn was giving the military precedent over use of The Racecourse, which meant that the club could not use the ground when it was needed, and as most of the players were volunteers in the military then they were not available to play for the club either- a bit like the situation that occurred during the first and second World Wars. Additionally, many of the players had also been Provincial Insurance clerks, as well as volunteers in the militia and cavalry, and it appears that The Provincial may have been reigning in their staff to represent their own company sports activities, although again, there was a continuation of people and associations with activities at The Racecourse to show that the club was basically the same club in 1872 as it had been in 1869. I believe that I could also prove that this was the case too.

I assume that you would get similar arguments from Stoke fans in relation to their clubs history?

Last edited by eastsussex; 15th November 2020 at 10.12:55..
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Old 21st November 2020, 09.55:50   #828-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsussex View Post
Thanks APJ, that is interesting, but I dont know much about Stoke, other than their claim to have been founded in 1863. I imagine that there would be plenty of arguments made either way as there would always be plenty of grey areas in comparison to the ways that modern clubs function. I tend to imagine the clubs in those days as just being groups of people who were creating clubs due to a new ethos of healthier living that was sweeping through society, with the backing of the establishment, but by modern standards, these clubs would be more akin to Sunday League pub teams nowadays..
The game had been evolving as a codified sport since the 1840’s, with The Cambridge Rules, followed by The Sheffield Rules and finally, the Football Association Rules, which were first penned in 1863 and have been evolving ever since.

From our own perspective, there are two main grey areas- 1869 to 1872, when the club appears to have disappeared; and the Olympic era, when the board and most of the players left the club and advertisements were placed in the local newspaper seeking volunteers to start a new club. However, the latter was far more nuanced than it first appears and was necessary to keep a football club in Wrexham after a scandal which led to the club being banned from the English Association. But as I have explained above, this was a bit of sleight-of-hand diplomacy, which was intended to keep the club alive by gaining re-admission to the English Association. This worked as the English FA readmitted the club in the following season, minus most of their players and their board. The club also added ‘Olympic; after its name, although the club remained on The Racecourse and there was still a continuation of individuals and organisations that had been associated with the earlier club. In effect, it was the same club, but changes had been made to avoid the economic affect of an English FA ban. If this was ever challenged, I feel confident that I could prove enough ongoing associations between the club before the ban and the Olympic era, to show that it was basically the same club.

The 1869-72 issue appears to have occurred for two reasons. Firstly, Sir W.W Wynn was giving the military precedent over use of The Racecourse, which meant that the club could not use the ground when it was needed, and as most of the players were volunteers in the military then they were not available to play for the club either- a bit like the situation that occurred during the first and second World Wars. Additionally, many of the players had also been Provincial Insurance clerks, as well as volunteers in the militia and cavalry, and it appears that The Provincial may have been reigning in their staff to represent their own company sports activities, although again, there was a continuation of people and associations with activities at The Racecourse to show that the club was basically the same club in 1872 as it had been in 1869. I believe that I could also prove that this was the case too.

I assume that you would get similar arguments from Stoke fans in relation to their clubs history?
One report (which WasanActonlad has previously mentioned on this thread) singularly dispels the notion that the football club was disbanded in 1869, although, as I have said, there were also plenty of other ongoing associations of people and organisations, to show that the club was the same club in 1872 as it had been in 1869.

In 1879, Newtown White Star won The Welsh FA Cup when they defeated Wrexham by one goal to nil, and in the absence of the President of the Welsh FA, the vice president of the FA – Evan Morris was selected to present White Star with the cup at a later ceremony.

Evan Morris was far more involved in the founding of the Football Association of Wales than he has ever been given credit for. Along with Llewelyn Kenrick, Evan Morris was instrumental in the birth of the FAW. But with Charles Edward Kershaw, Evan Morris was also a founder of The United Volunteer Services Club in October of 1863, which then gave rise to the birth of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club in October 1864.

Evan Morris made the following speech as he presented the 1879 Welsh Cup to Captain Edward Gittins of White Star.



“I came here with great pleasure to present this cup to the White Star Club, who have so worthily earned it. Your worthy chairman has spoken of me as president of the football club at Wrexham, which has existed for fifteen years. I have for a long time taken great interest ill football, and the great impetus given to football in the principality. As the vice-president of the Association, 1 hope you will understand me when I say that in all sincerity, I don't go in for one club more than another, but for the association of Wales. When the association first began it was very small, and it was a great gratification to Mr. Kenrick and myself, and everybody connected with the association, to see it grow in such large proportions.

Morris then added – ‘And there is no game that has taken such a hold upon the Welsh as the game of football, and which I hope brings out that manly and honourable competition in man.’ I think it is a game that should be encouraged, for it brings men together; high and low, rich and poor, to contend on an equal platform, where one man is as good as another, and the best man wins.

https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...78/3855086/52/


Sir Evan Morris was a remarkable, industrious, very well respected, deep thinking man, whose biography is recorded below.

The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

(although it should be added that William Henry Prichard was briefly the first President of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club)

Evan Morris had a favourite saying, which he would frequently recite, and which seems particularly relevant to the rise of Wrexham AFC as a global force, as projected by Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney.

“A Welsh Prophet Prophesised that Chester was, Liverpool is, but Wrexham will be !”

COYR.

Last edited by eastsussex; 21st November 2020 at 10.01:52..
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Old 21st November 2020, 11.37:47   #829-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

Who was the prophet..?
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Old 21st November 2020, 12.12:52   #830-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)

LOL....
let you into a wee little secret..
Sssshhh...dont go telling any one he was actually born in Che...I cant even bring my self to write it...!!
Though he was first member we know of to have played on the racecourse...a wrexham constabulary v someone match in the 1880's.

You do know ES...Saturdays are not Saturdays unless you've contributed to this thread..
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