The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham...)

[Inside Left]

ESR You are suggesting a tower crane in the early 1900's in Wrexham ? Do you refer to the cantilever structure close to the left of the Turf ?

[midlandred]

Originally Posted by Inside Left

ESR You are suggesting a tower crane in the early 1900's in Wrexham ? Do you refer to the cantilever structure close to the left of the Turf ?

Modern tower cranes did not come into use until 1949, also the Egerton Post Office is not in that direction. The extreme left of the picture are the twin towers of Seion Chapel. The back entrance of Seion came out on Egerton Street. A more likely option is that the number of posts in the picture are for the Tramcars. On 29 May 1903 the electrification of the tram rails were extended from Wrexham General Station to the Turf Hotel.

[Inside Left]

Originally Posted by midlandred

Modern tower cranes did not come into use until 1949, also the Egerton Post Office is not in that direction. The extreme left of the picture are the twin towers of Seion Chapel. The back entrance of Seion came out on Egerton Street. A more likely option is that the number of posts in the picture are for the Tramcars. On 29 May 1903 the electrification of the tram rails were extended from Wrexham General Station to the Turf Hotel.

Thats what i thought. The power lines were supported by sturdy cast iron cantilever structures and of course the terminus for the trams was just beyond the Turf with a turning section behind the old wooden stand (refer to old plans for position)

The tram depot was built opposite Crispin lane and you can just still see a short section of track in the old building. A few of these supports still stood into the fifties - one in Rhostyllen. I agreed and its a guess, Those posts were supports for the electric trams.

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by Inside Left

ESR You are suggesting a tower crane in the early 1900's in Wrexham ? Do you refer to the cantilever structure close to the left of the Turf ?

Ah. Thanks for pointing this out IL. My reason for thinking it might be a tower crane is because when I was researching what buildings were being constructed in the area, I came across an accident which happened in Denbigh, when the new municipal buildings were being constructed in 1907 and a worker was injured onsite when a crane broke (see attached), but on reflection, I believe that tower cranes ‘as we know them today’ were not introduced until the 1920’s and so the cantilevered structure must be a tram pylon, although in relation to the houses in front of it, the pylon seems very high.
I still believe that that the match in question was most likely the 23rd Feb 1907 as the only other two games in the time frame between 1905 and 1908 when Wrexham played Villa reserves at The Racecourse was 21st October 1905, which resulted in a 1-1 draw and the 29th Feb 1908 when Villa beat Wrexham 6-1. The game in 1908 was particularly affected by very strong winds and February seems a lot more likely month for frost than October imo.

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by Rhosymedre Red

http://www.redpassion.co.uk/forums/a...1&d=1594135221

No idea of a date, 1930's?

Two photo's (attached) of Wxm v Villa from 'Images of Sport- Wrexham Football Club 1872-1950' by Gareth Davies and Pete Jones.

https://www.amazon.com/Wrexham-Footb.../dp/0752418998

As mentioned, the stripes on the socks and the shirt without a white neck band indicate that these photo's were taken 1908-1911 whereas the socks in your photo indicate 1905-08

Wrexham - Historical Football Kits

[jonesfach]

Originally Posted by Rhosymedre Red

Thanks esr. Well done.

I’ll say

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by Rhosymedre Red

Wrexham played in the Birmingham and District League around 1920, so it's possible Aston Villa had a side in it.

Originally Posted by Rhosymedre Red

Attachment 4447 around 1920.

While we are on the subject of Aston Villa, Rhosymedre Red, there is something which is not quite right about that newspaper headline (ATTACHMENT 4447).

The headline states ‘ 50 YEARS AGO. THE VISITORS WERE ASTON VILLA, AND IT IS INTERESTING THAT VILLA WILL AGAIN BE VISITORS THIS SEASON, FOLLOWING THEIR RELEGATION AND WREXHAM’S PROMOTION.'

As you will know, Villa were relegated to Division 3 in 1970 and Wrexham were promoted to Division 3 in the same year, and so the headline indicates that the newspaper article was published in the close season of 1970.
The headline shows a photo which was said to be ‘50 years ago’ (i.e. 1920) but I think that the reporter had merely approximated a date, as there is no record ‘that I can find’ of Villa playing Wrexham in that period.

Wrexham were in the Birmingham District League from 1905 to 1921, although football was suspended between 1915 and 1919, due to WW1.
Wrexham resumed their place in the Birmingham League in 1919, whereas Villa reserves were in the Birmingham District League up till 1915 but joined the Central league after the war from 1919/20 and were still in that league through 1921/22 and 22/23
Wrexham joined Division 3 North from the start of the 1921/22 season and it appears that Wrexham also established a new reserve team in 1922, which joined the Welsh National League (Northern Section) and Villa reserves played out a 0-0 draw in a pre season friendly against Wrexham reserves in front of 1,000 spectators at The Racecourse on 26 August 1922. The last game between the two sides on The Racecourse, prior to this friendly ‘that I can find’ was a 1-0 win for Villa in December 1914, and so I think that the newspaper has just used ’50 years ago’ as an arbitrary date for a photo which may not have been dated, but was actually taken pre 1914 or it may have been a photo taken at the friendly 1922 game, although the crowd in the photo appears to have been bigger than 1,000 and so I think that the photo may have been 1914 or earlier.

[MrBoss]

Only just started reading this fascinating stuff. Is there a starting XI List anywhere of our first game vs the fire brigade?al

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by MrBoss

Only just started reading this fascinating stuff. Is there a starting XI List anywhere of our first game vs the fire brigade?al

Yes. It was partially the reason how the thread was first started, after the ‘save the land behind the kop campaign’ around 5 years ago.
I had been contacting different official bodies when it seemed like the land behind the kop was going to be sold and I was looking into the history of the kop itself when I came across an old black and white photo, online, from the 1960’s. The photo was taken from the pitch, looking up across the faces on a packed kop and I was scanning through the faces when I realised that many of those faces are no longer with us.
I started thinking about those fans on the kop and the generations who came before them and was wondering who they were and what their lives were like. I have an interest in history and anthropology and soon realised that the club and stadium are much more than just the sum of their parts, and I felt that the actual history of the stadium, the club and its fans, might be the clubs saviour.

While looking through that single newspaper report of our first ever game against the fire brigade from 1864, I realised that W. Tootell was not a common name and I soon found a report of the death of Sergeant William Tootell in the Wrexham papers in 1866.

http://www.redpassion.co.uk/forums/w...ry-thread.html


The biography in this first page has been amended in the ensuing pages of the thread and biographies of the other nine players are also posted throughout the thread, as well as photo’s of three of the original team members. The last of the ten man team that I found ‘Joseph Roberts’ is recorded below.

The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham...)


There are also biographies of Evan Morris and Edward Manners in the thread as well as many of the 10 men of The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade.
If you read through the thread, you will find (from my part at least) that it is a kind of thought process, which tries to uncover, not just the history of the club, but also the history of the land on which the stadium was built, and the relationship between those fields off Crispin Lane and the townsfolk, over an extended period of history.
Sometimes those initial thoughts prove to be incorrect, but more often the thread uncovers previously unknown information about the history of Wrexham, Stansty, the club and the stadium.
There is a brief summary of the history of the club and stadium below, which includes the names of the 10 man team from our first ever game.

https://www.footballhistory.org/club/wrexham.html




But there is much more embedded in the different posts throughout the thread, relating to Stansty, the town, its people as well as the club, players, fans and the stadium.