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6th May 2019, 14.29:46 | #622-0 (permalink) |
Cult Hero
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
IMG_0091.jpg around 1920.
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6th May 2019, 16.49:54 | #623-0 (permalink) |
Taking coaching badges
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
That's a good pic never seen that one before...
So the question now is when did we first play Villa? If the pic is 1920 did we really play then circa 1870? |
6th May 2019, 17.00:19 | #624-0 (permalink) | |
Taking coaching badges
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
Quote:
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10th May 2019, 17.22:27 | #626-0 (permalink) | |
Due a Testimonial
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
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Like all of the brothers, Robert Williams (1695-1763) was a man of means, who had been born into one of the wealthiest families in Wales. He was the owner of Erbistock Hall and was elected MP for Montgomeryshire (1741-42 and 1742-47) as well as receiving the title of The Recorder of Oswestry. Alfred Neobard Palmer stated that Robert Williams lived at The Crispin from 1731 ‘and for a few years after’ although he must have leased the property, as Palmer also reported that The Crispin had been owned by the Ambrose Lewis family since at least 1704 until the year 1820. This begs the question as to why Robert Williams would lease, and live in a property on Crispin Lane, when he himself owned Erbistock Hall and other substantial estates in the region, while his family were also the largest landowners in Wales? It would therefore seem that it may have been the location of the property, which was the most important factor when Robert Williams lived at The Crispin, as it was a substantial house in its own grounds, which adjoined a large area of open fields that were owned by his brother- Sir Watkin Williams Wynn. This becomes apparent when we look at the timing of the lease, which corresponds with a period in which we know that his family were promoting The Wrexham Races ‘on the new course’ (as recorded in The London Evening Post of 1739 and 1740) while we also know that his other brother- Richard Williams of Penbedw (MP for Flint) was building a reputation for breeding racehorses at this time. And so it may have been a family project, which first brought horse racing to Y Cae Ras in 1739 and 1740, although a lack of information in the archives in succeeding years, suggests that the races were not firmly established as a major annual event until the end of the 18th Century. A newspaper report from The Chester Courant further indicated that The Wrexham Races of 1792 were more of a rustic event, at that time, and in his memoirs, Major Charles James Appleby, (the brother-in-law of Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn) also described the races as being ‘ little more than leatherplate races’ at the end of the 18th Century. Other, much smaller venues are also known to have been used for private races at different times and in other locations around town, with individuals, such as the landlords of public houses using the fields adjoining their premises to facilitate races between customers, while making money from the betting associated with such races. But it was the construction a new public house, called The Turf Tavern in 1793-95 which suggests that Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn (5th Baronet) had decided to upgrade the old racecourse off Crispin Lane, and establish Y Cae Ras as the only public horse racing venue in town. His decision might also have been swayed by the need for a suitable training ground for a new cavalry regiment, known as The Gentlemen and Yeomanry Cavalry of Wrexham, which was established, under Sir Watkin’s patronage in 1795. The regiment, along with its successors and other local military regiments would maintain a long association with The Racecourse, and Sir Watkin commissioned a new silver trophy, called ‘The Silver Cavalry Cup’ specifically for the members of the cavalry who would race in their own event, during the annual Wrexham Races, from the beginning of the 19th Century. In The Welsh History Review, an academic paper from The University of Wales, it has been recorded that the Myddleton family of Chirk Castle had been regularly subscribing to horse racing in Wrexham since before the year 1700. Although the exact location of those early races may have now been lost, it would seem that the Williams brothers had invested in the construction of a new course, off Crispin Lane in 1739, and the course was later revamped, due to military considerations, as well as commercial opportunities, by Sir Watkin Williams Wynn (5th Baronet) around 1793. Last edited by eastsussexred; 10th May 2019 at 17.29:33.. |
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22nd May 2019, 21.57:12 | #628-0 (permalink) |
Due a Testimonial
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
A new impetus from the poster named ‘Canary’ has helped to finally confirm the identity of the last unknown player of the 10-man-team who played against The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade, in our first ever game on 22nd October 1864.
Joseph Roberts was born in Oswestry, on the 21st May 1837 and he was baptised at The Welsh Chapel on Castle Lane, on 9th July 1837 The son of Frederick Roberts (b- 1804) and Jane Davies (b- 1807) Joseph Roberts had a brother- Benjamin (b 1843) and two sisters- Jane (b-1833) and Elizabeth (b 1836). His father was a Miller/Flour Dealer and Maltster The family moved to Wrexham where they were recorded in the 1851 Census as living near to The Racecourse, at 46 Mold Road. Frederick, then 51, was listed as a Miller and Corn Factor (dealer) who lived with his wife- Jane (45) daughter- Jane (17) Elizabeth (15) and Joseph (13). Joseph’s brother - Benjamin (9) is believed to have been living at a boarding school in Chester at this time. Frederick Roberts owned a bakery on Town Hill, Wrexham, which was destroyed by fire on 28th November 1853 https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...96/4462500/38/ and he wrote a letter to the directors of The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company, to thank them for their ‘great promptitude and fairness with which they had paid the claim’ which was published in The North Wales Chronicle on 10th December 1853 https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...505/4462506/1/ although the property was only partially insured and the losses incurred as a result of the fire brought a period of financial instability for the family. By 1861, the family had moved to 5 College Street, Wrexham, where Frederick was described as a Provisions Dealer and Malster, who lived with his wife-Jane, his son- Benjamin, daughter- Jane and grandchildren- Thomas Howes (1) and Elizabeth G (2 weeks). Jane’s husband, an accountant by the name of Thomas Howes Roberts is also listed as living at the property, as too is Joseph’s wife- Martha Roberts (30) although Joseph is not mentioned, as it is believed that he may have been away on business in America. Frederick Roberts was later declared a bankrupt; although he was subsequently discharged from bankruptcy at Liverpool Bankruptcy Court on 13th May 1864 https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...16/4446922/49/ and he continued to trade at his shop in Wrexham, as reported in 1868. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...07/4580012/27/ Frederick was then listed as a miller and baker, who lived with his wife and two daughters at 2 Abbott Street, Wrexham, in the 1871 Census, but he died at the age of 76, at Manchester House, in Colwyn Bay, on 26th April 1880. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...65/3559069/34/ Within the context of this general history of the family, it has been possible to determine the events that would lead to Joseph Roberts being employed as an agent or clerk for The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company, where he was enrolled onto their cricket team, and subsequently made the connections that would result in him being one of the 10 founding players of Wrexham Football and Athletics Club, in 1864. A court case from 1857 showed that Joseph Roberts had worked for a Mr Evans of Queen Street in 1854, most likely due to the financial issues endured by the Roberts family, due to the fire at their Bakers shop, in the previous year. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...83/4586986/12/ Another court case relating to the unpaid wages for a thirteen week period from September 1856, showed that Joseph Roberts had also worked as a book keeper for a Malster in Wrexham, named as Mr Hughes. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...57/4587461/38/ Joseph then became a new member of the Wrexham Cricket Club and played his first match against Hawarden, on The Racecourse Ground in June 1857 https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...08/4586911/12/ and again played for the cricket club against a united team of Wrexham, on The Racecourse in August 1857. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...n%20racecourse Joseph married Martha Hughes at Penybryn Chapel, Wrexham on 5 May 1859. They had three daughters: Elizabeth Jane (b-1860) Annie Poole (b-1863) Edith Alice (b-1868) and two sons David Frederick Roberts (b-1864 and Frederick E D Roberts (b-1865) although David died in 1864 and Frederick in 1865. In February of 1863, Joseph Roberts was one of 32 insurance clerks and agents who wrote a letter of thanks (published in The Wrexham Advertiser) to the directors of The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company, after the company had installed a new gymnasium and reading room at their office in Wrexham. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie.../55/Provincial Most of the clerks identified in the letter would later become founding members of Wrexham Football and Athletic Club, and many would play for the team in the earliest days of football on The Racecourse, including George Rumsey Johnson, who had also partnered Joseph Roberts as a member of the Provincial Welsh Insurance Cricket team in a match against Wrexham Cricket Club on 25th June 1864. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...09/4579214/28/ Four months later, both G. R. Johnson and Joseph Roberts would play for Wrexham Football and Athletic Club, in the clubs first ever game against The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade at The Racecourse Ground, on 22nd October 1864. https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...55/4579360/19/ Joseph Roberts later moved to Chester where he was listed in the 1871 Census as living at 11 Pathway, St John’s Chester with his wife Martha and two daughters – Annie P (11) and Edith A (3). Joseph’s occupation was listed as an “agent and corn dealer employing 1 man and 2 boys”. But by 1881, the family had moved to St Asaph, where they lived with Joseph’s brother-in-law, Thomas Howes Roberts, at Jesamine Cottage. Thomas, who was an accountant by profession, was also the Chairman of The St Asaph Board of Guardians and of the St. Asaph Rural District Council. The census for this year stated that Joseph (43) was a retired victualler whose wife-Martha was aged 43 and his daughter Edith was aged 13. It is not known when the family moved from St. Asaph, but the 1891 census recorded that Joseph Roberts was living at 85 Huskisson Street, Liverpool, with his wife and two daughters – Annie P Roberts (28) and Edith Alice Roberts (23); his occupation was listed as ‘accountant’. Joseph Roberts died in Liverpool in 1894, while Martha remained in Liverpool, where she died in 1907. Joseph Roberts Born Oswestry- 1837 Died Liverpool- 1894 Charles Edward Kershaw (Captain) Born Saddleworth (Yorks) 1839. Died Southport 1874. William Tootell Born Nottingham 1831. Died Wrexham 1866 Thomas Henry Sykes Born Huddersfield 1840. Died Nottingham 1910 Thomas Broster Born Wrexham 1845. Died Bethlehem, South Africa 1921 Thomas Hanmer Born Overton 1839. Died Wrexham 1887 Edward Ephraim Knibbs Born Chester 1837. Died Wrexham 1875 Thomas Heath Born Ramsbury (Wilts) 1824. Died Wycombe 1887. John Taylor Born Wrexham 1842. Died Newcastle 1895 George Rumsey Johnston Born Bangor 1843. Died Denbighshire 1912 This concludes the list of the 10 men who played for Wrexham Football and Athletic Club in the clubs first ever game against 10 men of The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade, at The Racecourse, on 22nd October 1864. I will now forward this list to the club, the FAW and Coflein to seek approval for a plaque to be erected at Y Cae Ras in recognition of these pioneers. Attached is a photo of Joseph Roberts and his wife Martha. The date of the photo is unknown, although it was obviously taken in their later years |
23rd May 2019, 09.29:23 | #629-0 (permalink) |
Taking coaching badges
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Re: The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Football Club (Massive history thread!)
Don't know if its my computer or the links but I'm getting this error when I click on the links.
A PHP Error was encountered Severity: Warning Message: call_user_func_array() expects parameter 1 to be a valid callback, class 'Error' does not have a method 'index/404' Filename: core/CodeIgniter.php Line Number: 532
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