Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=pagl;2071715]What difference does it make to you given your not watching it anyway.[/QUOTE]

It matters because that's why I'm not watching it at the moment.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=standingroomonly2;2071680]Not sure how wedgebury is being included as one of our better players. He is a big part of the problem. Slow, passing is generally poor or slow in seeing the opportunity to bring others into play. Often panics and hoists the ball high. He's yet to convince me that he's a good signing
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Eh? Wedgebury has been outstanding, he just needs a better midfield around him.

[QUOTE=dixienormous;2071764]Eh? Wedgebury has been outstanding, he just needs a better midfield around him.[/QUOTE]


Outstanding 😂 only Manny Pearson & Dibble have been outstanding in my opinion, I agree with SRO post I think the goal he scored yesterday has put a shine on him he simply can't pass the ball a few yards, I would call him average at best, but that's what the forum is about opinions.
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Keates is a manager that is capable of setting up a team not to lose, but clearly struggles with setting up a team to win games.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=dixienormous;2071764]Eh? Wedgebury has been outstanding, he just needs a better midfield around him.[/QUOTE]

I expected better if I'm honest. Average at best.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2071719]Is it a coincidence that most people who aren't fully supportive of Keates can't spell his name?[/QUOTE]

I kan :jester:

Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

I can see what Keates was trying to do yesterday. He brought Carrington back because he is a better passer than Wright, and he expected a tight game where guile .rather than brute force would be the deciding factor for us. I think it was a mistake, but credit to him for trying to increase our creativity.

The same argument goes for why Boden started with Holroyd, more guile, better ball retention than the youngsters. The plan was not successful because we never got up to support the front men. The front men failed to hold up the ball, and Carrington isn't the quickest joining in.

I give Keates great credit for trying Kelly in an advanced central position, sadly he needed better passing options than he could see in front of him.

I am very impressed that Keates has stuck to his guns for 10 games, but is now willing to explore other avenues. He's shown maturity in my opinion.

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2071766]Outstanding 😂 only Manny Pearson & Dibble have been outstanding in my opinion, I agree with SRO post I think the goal he scored yesterday has put a shine on him he simply can't pass the ball a few yards, I would call him average at best, but that's what the forum is about opinions.
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Manny and Pearson are the biggest problem we have. I read it in a coaching manual somewhere......
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=dixienormous;2071764]Eh? Wedgebury has been outstanding, he just needs a better midfield around him.[/QUOTE]

I like Wedgebury so far. Seems like a decent, solid player who tries, within this negative setup, to make things happen. Always seems fired up and I think sometimes he tries a bit too hard to force things and gets it wrong. But for me he's easily one of our better players and hopefully has more to come. (Hope I haven't just ended his career with that ringing endorsement).

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Birdy;2071629]You can say give him more time you will be here in 3 years time saying the same thing. If you can't see the fact that Keates cannot get the team to play to the right tactics and the of play and to bring in the correct players now then you never will. Its just blind faith and optimism. I said the same thing about Mills in the early days and got laughed at but was right then and I'm right again now. There is nothing to indicate anything will change just blind hope and optimism which is best not to be relied on. Of course we can look for another manager if the current one is not up to the job. You don't stick with a failing manager just because the last one was a failiure too.[/QUOTE]

Most managers fail. Ultimately. Everywhere. Even after being successful at one time or another so, to be honest, saying "I told you so" about a manager carries about as much weight as asserting that it will rain before too long. Even when the suns shining. Cos it will.

[QUOTE=Old Paddock Man;2071797]Most managers fail. Ultimately. Everywhere. Even after being successful at one time or another so, to be honest, saying "I told you so" about a manager carries about as much weight as asserting that it will rain before too long. Even when the suns shining. Cos it will.[/QUOTE]



That's true their is an example at Tranmere Mellon,and a previous example here Mills.
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Rhys healey 18 yrs old scoring for fun for connahs quay went to cardiff were were wrexham

[QUOTE=the sleeping giant dies;2071801]Rhys healey 18 yrs old scoring for fun for connahs quay went to cardiff were were wrexham[/QUOTE]
3 leagues below Cardiff?
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Is Rhys Healy at Connah's Quay now?

Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Congy Red;2071779]I can see what Keates was trying to do yesterday. He brought Carrington back because he is a better passer than Wright, and he expected a tight game where guile .rather than brute force would be the deciding factor for us. I think it was a mistake, but credit to him for trying to increase our creativity.

The same argument goes for why Boden started with Holroyd, more guile, better ball retention than the youngsters. The plan was not successful because we never got up to support the front men. The front men failed to hold up the ball, and Carrington isn't the quickest joining in.

I give Keates great credit for trying Kelly in an advanced central position, sadly he needed better passing options than he could see in front of him.

I am very impressed that Keates has stuck to his guns for 10 games, but is now willing to explore other avenues. He's shown maturity in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Guile !!! Passing it sideways after 5 touches doesn't unlock many defenses. Picking it up,driving at players and committing a few to come out and press you certainly does. I know which id want to defend against.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Best team going forward imo: GK DIBBLE RB HURST LB JENNINGS CB's PEARSON & SMITH LM RUTHERFORD CM's WRIGHT & WEDGBURY RM MACKRETH CF's HOLROYD & SMITH. Defence is perfectly sound. Attack directly on the wings and get at teams... ATTACK!!!Smith has to play every minute until he goes back to Fleetwood & if Holroyd can get fit looks like he could be a nuisance.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Gazfoxy WFC;2071835]Best team going forward imo: GK DIBBLE RB HURST LB JENNINGS CB's PEARSON & SMITH LM RUTHERFORD CM's WRIGHT & WEDGBURY RM MACKRETH CF's HOLROYD & SMITH. Defence is perfectly sound. Attack directly on the wings and get at teams... ATTACK!!!Smith has to play every minute until he goes back to Fleetwood & if Holroyd can get fit looks like he could be a nuisance.[/QUOTE]

Leo Smith or Manny Smith as a CF?

[QUOTE=panda23;2071839]Leo Smith or Manny Smith as a CF?[/QUOTE]


Had me puzzled that one too as neither are on loan from Fleetwood
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Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Congy Red;2071779]I can see what Keates was trying to do yesterday. He brought Carrington back because he is a better passer than Wright, and he expected a tight game where guile .rather than brute force would be the deciding factor for us. I think it was a mistake, but credit to him for trying to increase our creativity.

The same argument goes for why Boden started with Holroyd, more guile, better ball retention than the youngsters. The plan was not successful because we never got up to support the front men. The front men failed to hold up the ball, and Carrington isn't the quickest joining in.

I give Keates great credit for trying Kelly in an advanced central position, sadly he needed better passing options than he could see in front of him.

I am very impressed that Keates has stuck to his guns for 10 games, but is now willing to explore other avenues. He's shown maturity in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

There might be something in this explanation. We only see the end product as fans but you have to believe there was a reason for the changes and why we were set up the way we were.

That said, Mills kept changing the team last season and that didn't help settle the team down. Still early days and guess he's rotating the squad to give everyone a chance, particularly with the loanees heading back before xmas.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Reds4life;2071619]I left at half time for the first time in 10 years. Bore off Keates.[/QUOTE]

So you sat through games last season? Or under Morrell in his last season. Or when we lost 4-0 to Telford at home. Or Littles last season or Saunders first season or the hundreds of times we have been terrible over he last ten years.... But yesterday was your line?

Mental.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2071842]Had me puzzled that one too as neither are on loan from Fleetwood
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Typo : Alex Reid....

Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=REDJB;2071828]Guile !!! Passing it sideways after 5 touches doesn't unlock many defenses. Picking it up,driving at players and committing a few to come out and press you certainly does. I know which id want to defend against.[/QUOTE]

Just about sums yesterday up. Our idea of direct is hoofing the ball forward rather than short passes and runs forwards.

[QUOTE=EnglishRed;2071848]So you sat through games last season? Or under Morrell in his last season. Or when we lost 4-0 to Telford at home. Or Littles last season or Saunders first season or the hundreds of times we have been terrible over he last ten years.... But yesterday was your line?

Mental.[/QUOTE]


I suppose everyman has his limits as you posted all the previous crap maybe this season is the final straw for him.
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

As previously said in this thread it's a ridiculous notion to call for his head this early. See where we are after Christmas and reassess then.

Having said that we are only 2 points top granted but had a few teams had a few better results, our standing would look a lot worse. Keates seriously needs to have a look at his tactics if fans can see things he can't, it doesn't bode well going forward.

Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Congy Red;2071779]I can see what Keates was trying to do yesterday. He brought Carrington back because he is a better passer than Wright, and he expected a tight game where guile .rather than brute force would be the deciding factor for us. I think it was a mistake, but credit to him for trying to increase our creativity.

The same argument goes for why Boden started with Holroyd, more guile, better ball retention than the youngsters. The plan was not successful because we never got up to support the front men. The front men failed to hold up the ball, and Carrington isn't the quickest joining in.

I give Keates great credit for trying Kelly in an advanced central position, sadly he needed better passing options than he could see in front of him.

I am very impressed that Keates has stuck to his guns for 10 games, but is now willing to explore other avenues. He's shown maturity in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Have to disagree with all of this. The last 5 games showed that Wedgbury/Wright is the better combination. No need to experiment at this stage just get points on the board especially at home.

For me its worrying we dont set up to attack teams at home.

At the moment Keates team isnt balanced and until he addresses the CF situation tyen we will continue to struggle for goals.

With the hoof ball style we may as well play 451.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

The history of this great club and expectation of the fans weighs heavily on the shoulders of any manager. I think the stress of failing to get us up after getting so near led Morrell to quit. A piddling little club with their handful of fans can afford to go hung ho, and if they lose, well so what, nobody really expected much anyway. Here, we are just too frightened to lose. And in real terms, the history means nothing compared to the lure of the £££s. OK, managers have said that players still want to come because it's a big club at this level, blah, blah, and maybe some come for locality/ family reasons, but the reality is that decent players will go to the clubs who pay most, and who can blame them? Forest Green, prime example. So, I think Keates is doing is OK, given the funds we have, although we are better off than quite a few. Still only 2 points off the top so no need to panic at this stage. Maybe the fans should find a way of telling the management 'set up for attack and have a bloody go for a few games. If we lose, then at least we lose fighting and trying to entertain. ( Then go back to the defensive dross - at least something different would have been tried!).'

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

It always intrigues me how fans say I'd take boring 1-0 and 0-0 games if it gets us out of the league' but when it happens they want to get rid of the manager. Yes the football might be dull, but is it better to be dull and not lose, or entertain and lose?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2071671]Mismanagement has got us to where we are now, not supporting the CoE and the rubbish excuses to try and justify it. !


Your comments are absolutely correct and are aligned to what Bagger Vance tried to impress upon before he finally gave up. He also mentioned short termiism as a major problem and that aspect has again reared its ugly head.

I don't understand the argument that we should be four or six points ahead at the top of the league, it would be very nice but not one team is making any significant headway. It's a hard league where everyone appears to be able to beat each other by whatever means no matter what their position is. If it were otherwise I would be genuinely concerned.

I agree that the type of football on offer is certainly not entertaining, however, it may be what the management have designated to be the most reliable and suitable to sustain our long term interests and employed as a means to an end as a temporary measure. I can accept this as a concept rather than again making rash decisions in the hope of immediate gain which has so miserably failed us in the past. This aspect should have been employed years ago as it is very late in the day to expect fans to be sufficiently patient after ten years and I fully understand their opinions. However, it may prove to be the only way forward, again citing it as a long term objective.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Does Keates ever watch the footage of a game back? Would he be able to keep awake during the re-run?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

It all reminds me of working for a firm that every year somehow just manages not to go bust, but refuses to change its direction to keep up with changing market requirements until, one day, it runs out of ideas and money, and finally crashes.

No business succeeds by standing still. Every business is either going backwards or is going forwards.

As has been said many times before, doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result, is the first sign of madness. In our case, replace madness with stupidity.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Absolutely no problem with Keates - Rome wasn't built in a day - and the sickness at the heart of this club when he took over will take some time to sort.

Of course we are far from the finished article - but we never were going to be anything else at this stage. Start of this the season I said I'd be happy winning more games than we lose this season - and we have - so I can't complain.

Yes we need more goal threat, we could do with a more positive midfield, I personally would play a different system, but there isn't a magic wand to fix all of our problems when they are the same problems faced by all of the competition.

Development will come slowly but surely, parts of the team are far better than last year, others aren't yet, but I think they will in time. I'm prepared to be patient - quick fixes rarely work

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=stanvax;2071904]Development will come slowly but surely, parts of the team are far better than last year, others aren't yet, but I think they will in time. I'm prepared to be patient - quick fixes rarely work[/QUOTE]

Yeh and that includes Carra and Wedgbury at CM. Been tried, doesn't work so move on.

Recruitment is now key for us to stay in contention.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Here we have the football experts commentating while they work in a factory packing nappies 👍👍😹

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

2 points off top not lost in 6 conceded ONE in those 6 matches and we are all marching like lemming to the cliffs......

close season people were praising Keates' recruitment and now it's the end of the world...

CHRIST!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=pwynnej;2071940]2 points off top not lost in 6 conceded ONE in those 6 matches and we are all marching like lemming to the cliffs......

close season people were praising Keates' recruitment and now it's the end of the world...

CHRIST![/QUOTE]

Yup !

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2071929]Here we have the football experts commentating while they work in a factory packing nappies 👍👍😹[/QUOTE]

A bit harsh and unnecessarily defensive. DK will be here for at least the next 2 seasons. No one should expect him to hit gold straight away. I am sure he is more aware of our strengths and weaknesses that any poopy-painter on here!:)

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=pwynnej;2071940]2 points off top not lost in 6 conceded ONE in those 6 matches and we are all marching like lemming to the cliffs......

close season people were praising Keates' recruitment and now it's the end of the world...

CHRIST![/QUOTE]

For balance: 3 points off 15th, not won in 3 and scored 5 in 6 games.

[QUOTE=Birdy;2071945]For balance: 3 points off 15th, not won in 3 and scored 5 in 6 games.[/QUOTE]

Depends if you are a glass half empty, or a glass half full kind of person though

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=borntobered;2071948]Depends if you are a glass half empty, or a glass half full kind of person though[/QUOTE]

After watching the dross on display I fail to see how people can remain half full. I'm down to 1/3 empty it's that bad!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

The issue is that we have an unrealistic expectation that a manager can come in and storm the league. We now need stability and steady progress, of course drawing to a cheating poor team at home is not good enough. We can question the team selection which was wrong in my opinion, but I am not the manager and don't have all the facts about the team. Play your part as a fan and support our team. Calling for Keates' to be replaced is plain stupid.