Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2071929]Here we have the football experts commentating while they work in a factory packing nappies 👍👍😹[/QUOTE]

Yeah heaven forbid people expressed their opinion on a football forum and express disappointment about recent performances.

Dear me, the stupidity...

Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=pagl;2071866]Have to disagree with all of this. The last 5 games showed that Wedgbury/Wright is the better combination. No need to experiment at this stage just get points on the board especially at home.

For me its worrying we dont set up to attack teams at home.

At the moment Keates team isnt balanced and until he addresses the CF situation tyen we will continue to struggle for goals.

With the hoof ball style we may as well play 451.[/QUOTE]

What are you disagreeing with? The reason I gave for Keates changing the team? or are you disagreeing with me disagreeing with that decision?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Christ we think we're in a mess, have you been on the Tranmere forum almost in meltdown.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Our good run started with the introduction into the team of Dibble, Wright and Hurst - it took us up a notch - enough to gain wins but now they are out of the team and Carrington is back - I thought he had a reasonable game v Hartlepool particularly as he was afforded little protection early second half in the left back role - but he isn't a midfielder and playing him with Wedgbury doesn't work. yesterday when Kelly was switched to the centre of midfield we looked much better - but then strangely he got subbed - this is after Wright was not selected in the first place for reasons that haven't been explained.

Fine margins and virtually all games are decided by one goal - the next handful of games against so called fancied / top end of the table teams will show us more.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Red Light;2071959]Our good run started with the introduction into the team of Dibble, Wright and Hurst - it took us up a notch - enough to gain wins but now they are out of the team and Carrington is back - I thought he had a reasonable game v Hartlepool particularly as he was afforded little protection early second half in the left back role - but he isn't a midfielder and playing him with Wedgbury doesn't work. yesterday when Kelly was switched to the centre of midfield we looked much better - but then strangely he got subbed - this is after Wright was not selected in the first place for reasons that haven't been explained.

Fine margins and virtually all games are decided by one goal - the next handful of games against so called fancied / top end of the table teams will show us more.[/QUOTE]


Carra is a midfielder,but cut from the same cloth as Wedgebury ... a very defensive weave!.Neither have the natural inclination to drive forward with the ball,and yesterday they were both conspicuous in their absence,when it came to getting forward to support the wide players when those lads had the ball (with Roberts' lack of forward drive adding to the problem!)... hence the number of crosses that Rutherford and Kelly were slinging in to the box,this being often their only option!.Most fans seem to see this,I just hope Dean and co are at least aware of the problem.Saturday will tell us more (I hope!).:)

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=TWREX;2071957]Christ we think we're in a mess, have you been on the Tranmere forum almost in meltdown.[/QUOTE]

Sense of entitlement; both clubs. We've been down here long enough to know that no one is going to gift us points.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=dlrwrexham;2071961]Carra is a midfielder,but cut from the same cloth as Wedgebury ... a very defensive weave!.Neither have the natural inclination to drive forward with the ball,and yesterday they were both conspicuous in their absence,when it came to getting forward to support the wide players when those lads had the ball (with Roberts' lack of forward drive adding to the problem!)... hence the number of crosses that Rutherford and Kelly were slinging in to the box,this being often their only option!.[B]Most fans seem to see this,I just hope Dean and co are at least aware of the problem.Saturday will tell us more[/B] (I hope!).:)[/QUOTE]

But this is the problem and its basic. It dosen't take a genius to see this yet Keates persists.

Saturdays game is massive. We need Wright back into the midfield and either Carrington or Roberts being put on the bench. Massanka + Reid starting upfront. If as it been reported Tranmere have sacked there manager its going to make it an even tougher game but this is a good a chance we have to beat them away.

Re: Keates is certainly man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Congy Red;2071956]What are you disagreeing with? The reason I gave for Keates changing the team? or are you disagreeing with me disagreeing with that decision?[/QUOTE]

Disagreeing with the logic you used to justify the changes. There was no need to revert back to game 1 team.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Holroyd is back and I expect him to start at Tranmere - he almost scored with a good header yesterday second half - offers more in one match than Boden has all season.

I am hoping Wright comes back next week too and hopefully Hurst but information concerning injuries / reasons is strangely limited.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=TWREX;2071957]Christ we think we're in a mess, have you been on the Tranmere forum almost in meltdown.[/QUOTE]

And they have strikers galore and have still scored less than us :):)

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Come on peeps, it is only September...........

We are 2 points from the top of the league.........

Plenty of time to plan our promotion party away at Leyton Orient.

Cmon Wrexhammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

My concern is not that Dean appears to be making mistakes but is he learning from them?

Sadly I'm not seeing any progression in our negative areas. There is however plenty of time left. Obviously there are no 'outstanding' teams in the league this year and it is without doubt our best chance in years. It would be total madness to change managers at this point, not that we could afford it anyway.

I think that whatever is written on here, and I share the frustration of many, the support for the team and Dean is still there and a few wins will hold it up. But as it has been said 100 times we need a goal scorer. In a poor league we have to risk paying more - it may be along time before the League is this open again.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Anglesey red;2072008]If I was told before the season started, after 10 games that we would be 2 points from top, and the the best defence then I'd be happy with that. I'm sure we will click and I have a feeling we will beat the Tramps on saturday as I can see their fans getting on their players backs[/QUOTE]

Its got 0 -0 written all over it.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072022]And they have strikers galore and have still scored less than us :):)[/QUOTE]

They play with 5 at the back and apparently have no creativity in midfield.

Sound familiar?

Cooke who most of their fans agree is their best striker is on the bench most weeks and has hardly had a sniff of goal all season. So even if we signed him he wouldn't fare any better here unless we got that elusive creative midfielder in to make things happen.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

I would give every manager the minimum of a full season. All this knee jerk reaction stuff makes me laugh. This is NOT a promotion season for us. It's about forming a good base after Mills Mess up, then mount a decent challenge in August 2018.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

My only concern with Keates' decision-making is that, for me, he's a bit slow to make those substitutions. Is his team selection down to factors we cannot know - is Wright not fit for the full 90 minutes? Although if so, I'd probably start him for impact.

Boden has been a disappointment, Keates has more faith in him than I do. Don't think we're seeing the best Kelly has to offer yet. Generally though, I've liked the new recruits. We've got some strong pairings- Manny's composure and Pearson's solidity stand out for me.

And I'm firmly in the pro-Rutherford camp, for what it's worth.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

In answering the thread title if he isn't the man to take us forward who's is????!?!!!?

Exactly it's his team so he should be given until the end of season minimal, otherwise you get another manager taking over a club and players who he didn't sign and might not rate like Keates did after Mills, with little money to change it then we are back to square one.

GROUNDHOG DAY AFC
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Willywill;2072091]I would give every manager the minimum of a full season. All this knee jerk reaction stuff makes me laugh. This is NOT a promotion season for us. It's about forming a good base after Mills Mess up, then mount a decent challenge in August 2018.[/QUOTE]

This, this, this and this again.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2072101]This, this, this and this again.[/QUOTE]

I agree and have said as much myself however if we were near the bottom of the league then this would have to go out the window surely?

If there's no danger of getting relegated which by the way I don't believe there is then we stick with DK this season with a view to really competing next. I know this won't wash with some but at some point we need a manger here for a few seasons.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Problem is, the BTB will be nowhere near next season so in theory the squad will be weaker.

Boden has been a massive waste of wages, he wasn't go to get them all right I guess.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Funny_Old_Game;2072103]Problem is, the BTB will be nowhere near next season so in theory the squad will be weaker.

Boden has been a massive waste of wages, he wasn't go to get them all right I guess.[/QUOTE]

That's if it's even been spent yet. I hope not!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Willywill;2072091]I would give every manager the minimum of a full season. All this knee jerk reaction stuff makes me laugh. This is NOT a promotion season for us. It's about forming a good base after Mills Mess up, then mount a decent challenge in August 2018.[/QUOTE]

Nice sentiments but the league is there for the taking this season and we have had BTB and Taylor monies. Strike whilst the iron is hot.

a CM and CF and we could push close.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2072102]I agree and have said as much myself however if we were near the bottom of the league then this would have to go out the window surely?

If there's no danger of getting relegated which by the way I don't believe there is then we stick with DK this season with a view to really competing next. I know this won't wash with some but at some point we need a manger here for a few seasons.[/QUOTE]

Thats a valid point if we were struggling in 2 months time down the bottom something would have to give, but I agree I dont think that is going to happen.

Hes maybe giving the players time to improve instead of jumping the gun with new additions on loan that maybe a short term fix. I wasn't there Saturday but understand why fans are getting restless. We have a much better team on paper than they did, wages overall higher too. Im in for the long term with Keates but he needs to do better sooner rather than later.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Okay I will play dumb and ammuse this thread even though it sums up everything that is wrong with the club. You would sack Dean for being 2 points of top in his first full season in charge and has admitted its not an overnight job, what next? Sign a team of footballers who play like Arsenal but with Aguero up top.....all for free....and make sure we sign them before any other big club....just because we are Wrexham.....And then still sack the next manager because we have not won the league by a clear 50 points?

People need to remember this is not football manager.....and I also agree that carrington is a mistake in midfield but who else would have taken going from cluless footballers last season to having one if not the best deffence in the league and two point off top.....

Bit of releasation please

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=redfronner;2072113]Okay I will play dumb and ammuse this thread even though it sums up everything that is wrong with the club. You would sack Dean for being 2 points of top in his first full season in charge and has admitted its not an overnight job, what next? Sign a team of footballers who play like Arsenal but with Aguero up top.....all for free....and make sure we sign them before any other big club....just because we are Wrexham.....And then still sack the next manager because we have not won the league by a clear 50 points?

People need to remember this is not football manager.....and I also agree that carrington is a mistake in midfield but who else would have taken going from cluless footballers last season to having one if not the best deffence in the league and two point off top.....

Bit of releasation please[/QUOTE]

If we are still 2 pts off the top following the next 7 games most will agree, bottom half, with same tactics, we are in melt down

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Bryn Tirion;2072061]They play with 5 at the back and apparently have no creativity in midfield.

Sound familiar?

Cooke who most of their fans agree is their best striker is on the bench most weeks and has hardly had a sniff of goal all season. So even if we signed him he wouldn't fare any better here unless we got that elusive creative midfielder in to make things happen.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. You could sign Messi and still not score with a weak midfield. Mind you, if we did sign him they might play him in goal.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=redfronner;2072113]Okay I will play dumb and ammuse this thread even though it sums up everything that is wrong with the club. You would sack Dean for being 2 points of top in his first full season in charge and has admitted its not an overnight job, what next? Sign a team of footballers who play like Arsenal but with Aguero up top.....all for free....and make sure we sign them before any other big club....just because we are Wrexham.....And then still sack the next manager because we have not won the league by a clear 50 points?

People need to remember this is not football manager.....and I also agree that carrington is a mistake in midfield but who else would have taken going from cluless footballers last season to having one if not the best deffence in the league and two point off top.....

Bit of releasation please[/QUOTE]

To be fair, there are very few on here calling for Keates to be sacked at the moment. There are plenty, including me who are cheesed off with tactics and performances but that's a long way from wanting him to get the boot.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072022]And they have strikers galore and have still scored less than us :):)[/QUOTE]

I had not realised that! Bloody hell if they've scored less than us, they really are struggling!

As frustrating as it is the way we're playing at the moment, we need to allow Keates to make mistakes and then enough time to learn from them. We didn't allow Morrell this luxury (gone after 1 bad season), Wilkin didn't last a year either, and Mills only lasted just over a year himself, the 'chop and change' approach just isn't working.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at the way we're playing and the blind spot for Carrington in midfield is increasingly baffling, but I honestly think we'll be better off if we allow Keates to make the mistakes and rectify them. History indicates that changing things now won't see us in a better position in 12 months time, so I'd like to see him given a sustained period of time to build a squad and slowly progress, rather than hit the panic button. If we were battling relegation it would be different of course.

I don't think all of the cash has been spent yet, weren't we still bidding for Cook until late in August? If so, you'd assume there's a healthy amount of money leftover. My guess is that Keates put all of his eggs in one basket and is now paying the price for missing out. If true, it's an error, but I'd like to see him have the chance to learn from this.

In terms of our 'hoof it and lose it' style of play, this is admittedly strange. I assumed with Darlington doing some coaching, we'd be better organised than this. Is CD advising Keates badly, or is Keates not taking his advice on board?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2072099]In answering the thread title if he isn't the man to take us forward who's is????!?!!!?

Exactly it's his team so he should be given until the end of season minimal, otherwise you get another manager taking over a club and players who he didn't sign and might not rate like Keates did after Mills, with little money to change it then we are back to square one.

GROUNDHOG DAY AFC
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Do you think Keates is getting the best out of the players?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Lesjonno;2072118]Absolutely. You could sign Messi and still not score with a weak midfield. Mind you, if we did sign him they might play him in goal.[/QUOTE]

Carrington would keep him on the bench.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=KT12 Exile;2072123]I had not realised that! Bloody hell if they've scored less than us, they really are struggling!

As frustrating as it is the way we're playing at the moment, we need to allow Keates to make mistakes and then enough time to learn from them. We didn't allow Morrell this luxury (gone after 1 bad season), Wilkin didn't last a year either, and Mills only lasted just over a year himself, the 'chop and change' approach just isn't working.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at the way we're playing and the blind spot for Carrington in midfield is increasingly baffling, but I honestly think we'll be better off if we allow Keates to make the mistakes and rectify them. History indicates that changing things now won't see us in a better position in 12 months time, so I'd like to see him given a sustained period of time to build a squad and slowly progress, rather than hit the panic button. If we were battling relegation it would be different of course.

I don't think all of the cash has been spent yet, weren't we still bidding for Cook until late in August? If so, you'd assume there's a healthy amount of money leftover. My guess is that Keates put all of his eggs in one basket and is now paying the price for missing out. If true, it's an error, but I'd like to see him have the chance to learn from this.

In terms of our 'hoof it and lose it' style of play, this is admittedly strange. I assumed with Darlington doing some coaching, we'd be better organised than this. Is CD advising Keates badly, or is Keates not taking his advice on board?[/QUOTE]

I was mulling over Darlingtons contribution last night. When he took over for the last few games of the season when Wilkin was sacked we played some decent passing football and had a good run of form. Compare that to the football we are being served up now.

Does anyone know if Darlington does actually contribute into the first team tactics or does Keates say this is the way we play and Darlington then assists with the coaching on that?

What is so frustrating is that we are full time team, decent facilities and a respected coach helping out yet watching the highlights from Saturday we yet again looked clueless against a part time team struggling down the bottom.

It so painful to watch and its blindingly obvious that hoofball doesn't work with the players we have. So the question has to be asked with all that we have why are we persisting with this tactic and why can't anyone come up with a plan B?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=NottsRed;2072138]I was mulling over Darlingtons contribution last night. When he took over for the last few games of the season when Wilkin was sacked we played some decent passing football and had a good run of form. Compare that to the football we are being served up now.

Does anyone know if Darlington does actually contribute into the first team tactics or does Keates say this is the way we play and Darlington then assists with the coaching on that?[/QUOTE]

That's what's confusing me as well. I'd really like to know the answer to your question at the end there.

[QUOTE=Birdy;2072125]Do you think Keates is getting the best out of the players?[/QUOTE]



In answer to your question Birdy are these players as good as some think? They are all non league journeymen so limited in ability else they wouldn't of spent so Long down here.

It was obvious that all his signings wouldn't work out it would be expecting a lot. As to is DK getting the best out of the players he has signed then probably not but is it all down to him? He is part of a management team really in Davies and Darlington. A lot as many have said is down to tactics and finding the right blend the continuation of playing 2 deep midfielders at home is baffling and especially Carrington who is probably a better option at rightback at the moment as Roberts has been very poor,

If he can play more expansive football at home it may help. But another thing I've noticed is the lack or pace in midfield and upfront their seems to be a lack of intensity in our play attacking wise.

On top of this Keates does not seem to know his best starting 11 yet. We could do with what Keates himself was when he arrived an experienced midfielder who has won promotion at a higher level an old ex league player if you like we have today many non league journeymen with limited ability, and some of us are expecting miracles from them with this lack of basic skills.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

[QUOTE=KT12 Exile;2072142]That's what's confusing me as well. I'd really like to know the answer to your question at the end there.[/QUOTE]

Perfect chance to find out this week:

http://www.redpassion.co.uk/forums/wrexham/110441-wst-meeting.html#post2072009
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2072147]In answer to your question Birdy are these players as good as some think? They are all non league journeymen so limited in ability else they wouldn't of spent so Long down here.

It was obvious that all his signings wouldn't work out it would be expecting a lot. As to is DK getting the best out of the players he has signed then probably not but is it all down to him? He is part of a management team really in Davies and Darlington. A lot as many have said is down to tactics and finding the right blend the continuation of playing 2 deep midfielders at home is baffling and especially Carrington who is probably a better option at rightback at the moment as Roberts has been very poor,

If he can play more expansive football at home it may help. But another thing I've noticed is the lack or pace in midfield and upfront their seems to be a lack of intensity in our play attacking wise.

On top of this Keates does not seem to know his best starting 11 yet. We could do with what Keates himself was when he arrived an experienced midfielder who has won promotion at a higher level an old ex league player if you like we have today many non league journeymen with limited ability, and some of us are expecting miracles from them with this lack of basic skills.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

The game against Hartlepool was a pleasure to watch and I thought that we played fairly well. Now consider the dross we all watched last Saturday and the difference was alarming .
To me it was obvious that Keates changed the team for no good reason and its been said many times that Carrington is useless in midfield as Boden is as a striker but still Keates seems arrogantly convinced he knows best and things will change !
In my opinion we have a half decent squad but its crying out for a decent mid field general and a decent striker. Keats says he knows this but I suspect he will still be tinkering throughout the season and wont bring in the 2 players extra we need .
This season the league is wide open and we could easily get promoted with a manager who knows what he is doing so I suspect its a mid table finish for us !

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=KT12 Exile;2072123]I had not realised that! Bloody hell if they've scored less than us, they really are struggling!

As frustrating as it is the way we're playing at the moment, we need to allow Keates to make mistakes and then enough time to learn from them. We didn't allow Morrell this luxury (gone after 1 bad season), Wilkin didn't last a year either, and Mills only lasted just over a year himself, the 'chop and change' approach just isn't working.

I'm as frustrated as anyone at the way we're playing and the blind spot for Carrington in midfield is increasingly baffling, but I honestly think we'll be better off if we allow Keates to make the mistakes and rectify them. History indicates that changing things now won't see us in a better position in 12 months time, so I'd like to see him given a sustained period of time to build a squad and slowly progress, rather than hit the panic button. If we were battling relegation it would be different of course.

I don't think all of the cash has been spent yet, weren't we still bidding for Cook until late in August? If so, you'd assume there's a healthy amount of money leftover. My guess is that Keates put all of his eggs in one basket and is now paying the price for missing out. If true, it's an error, but I'd like to see him have the chance to learn from this.

In terms of our 'hoof it and lose it' style of play, this is admittedly strange. I assumed with Darlington doing some coaching, we'd be better organised than this. Is CD advising Keates badly, or is Keates not taking his advice on board?[/QUOTE]
The overriding problem with Keates seems to me that he does'nt or refuses to recognise that mistakes are being made with selection, tactics, signings (apart from our centre backs ) and his apparent weakness or the necessary experience in the transfer market. I really want him to succeed at the Racecourse believe me. However I am worried, perhaps surprised, that up to now, Carl Darlington 's influence and supposed ' magic ' has yet to show it's value.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=draig arian;2072174]The overriding problem with Keates seems to me that he does'nt or refuses to recognise that mistakes are being made with selection, tactics, signings (apart from our centre backs ) and his apparent weakness or the necessary experience in the transfer market. I really want him to succeed at the Racecourse believe me. However I am worried, perhaps surprised, that up to now, Carl Darlington 's influence and supposed ' magic ' has yet to show it's value.[/QUOTE]

To be fair do you really expect him to say anything different to what he does in press conferences ? I haven't heard many managers saying "we were crap today and heads will roll"

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072177]To be fair do you really expect him to say anything different to what he does in press conferences ? I haven't heard many managers saying "we were crap today and heads will roll"[/QUOTE]

Would make a refreshing change.

draig arian is right in that Keates refuses to accept he has made mistakes with the squad and how it is set up. Also you do have to wonder how much influence Darlington is having on the set up.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072177]To be fair do you really expect him to say anything different to what he does in press conferences ? I haven't heard many managers saying "we were crap today and heads will roll"[/QUOTE]

DK would certainly gain more credibility in my books if he was brave enough to occasionally be so blunt. Saturday's abysmal display merited such critique.

Nevertheless, those first 11 games are now history. We are in a healthy position in the table but our next run of games will sort the men from the boys. I just hope DK has not decided that his original starting XI is the one and only option. I don't think he is that shallow but Saturday's selection sent alarm-bells ringing before a ball had been kicked. Must do better, I am afraid.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

This thread get increasingly more ridiculous as it goes on. Huge conjecture now accepted as RP FACT