Do we expect too much...
 

Do we expect too much from our professional players.....After all, they're just a hare's breath from working in proper jobs..
The tactical observers on here dissect players performances, but should we bare in mind, they are players on the last run of the professional game.....
Now I'm as bored of wasting my money on watching dross as the next person, but perhaps we need to remember where we are...

Having said that...It would be nice to stumble on that magic formula to get us out of this hell hole...

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Wrexham's Patrick Bateman;2072020]Do we expect too much from our professional players.....After all, they're just a hare's breath from working in proper jobs..
The tactical observers on here dissect players performances, but should we bare in mind, they are players on the last run of the professional game.....
Now I'm as bored of wasting my money on watching dross as the next person, but perhaps we need to remember where we are...

Having said that...It would be nice to stumble on that magic formula to get us out of this hell hole...[/QUOTE]

This argument annoys me incredibly.

Plenty of other players in this league are in the same position, some aren't even professional at all, yet they manage to play better. Other players in this league can play decent football, pass and move with tempo, create chances and test opposition defenders and keepers.

We rarely do this and there's no excuse for it.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

No

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

I'm expecting players who are able to pass a ball, even if it is sideways, and be accurate enough to put it in front of the players receiving it.
I'm expecting the receiving player to get their heads up before the pass arrives and know what option they have.
At present we have players who carelessly or incompetently (you choose) pass the ball 2 yards behind their teammate who then receives the ball in a position where there are still options wide, but because they haven't looked up their first movement is the safe backwards option.
i also expect players who realise it's possible to take the defender out of the game with a pass inside them. Holroyd has done this twice in the last game and a half. Everybody else is happy to play the ball to feet and leave it to the receiver to beat the man...not going to happen with our 'wingers'
These are all basics at junior level so the nearly semi-pro excuse doesn't wash
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

In terms of what I expect from the team it's to create more than the one chance a game we're seeing now. To have a right go at winning basically... at the moment the team is drifting through games waiting for something to happen instead of making things happen.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

I have no idea how this could be properly assessed but at these lower levels, compared to say 25 years ago, I would make the following observations;
The players are stronger/fitter/more physical.
The 'basic skills level' has dropped.
The coaching/theory of the game at this level has progressed
Expecting national League players to play like Real Madrid is as confusing as it is impossible.
Those players from higher levels who finished their careers in this level did so because they were not paid anything like todays money which basically means they don't have to.

The chance of progression from lower divisions is virtually non existent - (Vardy is the exception rather than the rule) Premier League clubs spend millions on foreign players some never getting a game. This will have inevitably changed the mind set of players, too many are content to become journeymen in the lower leagues.

Do we expect too much? - I hope so as a culture of achievement must include everyone associated with the Club even those who pay from their pensions and shout 'advice' and hopefully encouragement from the Yale Stand.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

If passing the ball forward to a wrexham player, getting in behind other teams, creating chances and having more than one shot on target during a game is expecting too much, then yes.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Birdy;2072043]No[/QUOTE]

yes

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Wrexham's Patrick Bateman;2072020]Do we expect too much from our professional players.....After all, they're just a hare's breath from working in proper jobs..
The tactical observers on here dissect players performances, but should we bare in mind, they are players on the last run of the professional game.....
Now I'm as bored of wasting my money on watching dross as the next person, but perhaps we need to remember where we are...

Having said that...It would be nice to stumble on that magic formula to get us out of this hell hole...[/QUOTE]

No. Wedgbury in front of back four with kelly & wright in centre midfield .

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

They are professional players. And as such should be expected to do a professional job.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072056]yes[/QUOTE]

Can you clarify this? Seeing as the main gripe is that this team creates about one half chance per game to expect more is perfectly justified.

Bigger picture wise the board and manager have repeatedly said promotion is the goal so we're only matching the clubs ambitions.

So people saying yes are going against the clubs main goal and are lowering standards and expectations, carry on this way and we'll be celebrating avoiding relegation like a Chester fan would.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

The 4th Divison Wrexham team of old would thrash this current team by some considerable margin.

Regardless of the level you play at you should in theory be able to trap, pass the ball and move into space competently, if you can't then perhaps you need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Attacking the by-line seems an alien concept to our players, in fact just dribbling past a full back would be nice once in a while from the video i've seen online.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

Just a thought though:

There was a time when clubs in the Football League would confidently expect to beat non-league sides by a hatful of goals in the 1st Round of the FA Cup , but it doesn't happen as often any more - the last real "tonkings" were a 7 - 0 away win by Norwich at Paulton Rovers in 2009/10, but that didn't match Mansfield's 1 - 8 win at St Albans almost 4 years ago.

So why is it that the non-league sides are no longer the pushovers that they used to be? The theory that older League players would have been more willing in the past than now to drop down to non-league level to end their careers might suggest that the non-league sides were less likely to be thrashed in those days, yet the opposite is true.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

Given crowds around 4,000 in this league then expectations are a lot higher than the standards that are being set.

Lets hope DK can raise the bar a bit.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

Wrexham fans deserve better!

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2072069]Can you clarify this? Seeing as the main gripe is that this team creates about one half chance per game to expect more is perfectly justified.

Bigger picture wise the board and manager have repeatedly said promotion is the goal so we're only matching the clubs ambitions.

So people saying yes are going against the clubs main goal and are lowering standards and expectations, carry on this way and we'll be celebrating avoiding relegation like a Chester fan would.[/QUOTE]

no :)

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072192]no :)[/QUOTE]

That's says a lot more tbh :)

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=The Only Way Is Up;2072076]Just a thought though:

There was a time when clubs in the Football League would confidently expect to beat non-league sides by a hatful of goals in the 1st Round of the FA Cup , but it doesn't happen as often any more - the last real "tonkings" were a 7 - 0 away win by Norwich at Paulton Rovers in 2009/10, but that didn't match Mansfield's 1 - 8 win at St Albans almost 4 years ago.

So why is it that the non-league sides are no longer the pushovers that they used to be? The theory that older League players would have been more willing in the past than now to drop down to non-league level to end their careers might suggest that the non-league sides were less likely to be thrashed in those days, yet the opposite is true.[/QUOTE]

Could it be that top teams, Championship teams field 2nd 3rd and youth teams in Cup competitions. If they fielded their best teams in these competitions you would see the same hammerings.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Wrexham's Patrick Bateman;2072020]Do we expect too much from our professional players.....After all, they're just a hare's breath from working in proper jobs..
The tactical observers on here dissect players performances, but should we bare in mind, they are players on the last run of the professional game.....
Now I'm as bored of wasting my money on watching dross as the next person, but perhaps we need to remember where we are...

Having said that...It would be nice to stumble on that magic formula to get us out of this hell hole...[/QUOTE]

YES YES YES


Majority i think of our fans expect far far too much... just because we ARE one of if not thee biggest clubs in this league.

they expect us to be title faves every season and challenge for everything.. and if we dont they go nuts.

they FAIL to consider our budget and more importantly SPENDING power is much lower than a lot of teams in this league.. the likes of Eastleigh , Barrow , Fylde , Dover , Tranmere , Orient and more have Multi Millionaire Owners.

yes they may set a "low" budget for themselves./.. but they all tend to spend way over what they actually have as income. we CANNOT compete with that. even on the above shortlist that puts us 7th in spending .. and i bet there is another 2-3 teams with more spending power than us.

so by making a top 5 finish.. we have over performed... 5-8th is more realistic and even then job well done if so.

nothing wrong with constructive critisism when team play badly.. buyt the fans need to realise we simply dont have the cash to bring in top players for this level we have to hope that if any become avaliable they in it for the glory or career progression (hence hungry to win) and not just mainly for the wages.. as if money talks 1st.. then we wont get many top players here.

EDIT - the players Keates has brought in.. is excellent and some good coups there for us.. most of which are currerntly under perforiming. but fantastic signings non the less to keep em out of being swayed by the money clubs

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2072195]That's says a lot more tbh :)[/QUOTE]

Ok I'll take the bait. We are expecting too much if we are disappointed with 2 points off the top and , in my opinion, having played some difficult away games. Saturday and the first game are the biggest disappointments for me personally.
I would like to see us create more chances but we are in the mix for promotion and I still hope/believe we will be in the playoffs at the end of the season which matches my personal target.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

From the players I expect nothing but 100% effort. If the right players aren't being picked, it's down to the manager.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

Asking too much? We are the longest remaing ex-league club still in this division. The fact that someone is even asking 'do we expect too much' just shows how far our ambitions have declined.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2072056]yes[/QUOTE]

No. For twenty quid i expect us to be beating Guiseley and putting them to the sword. That isn't expecting too much.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=eastsussexred;2072282]Asking too much? We are the longest remaing ex-league club still in this division. The fact that someone is even asking 'do we expect too much' just shows how far our ambitions have declined.[/QUOTE]

That was me..I asked the question just to see what reaction it would get. My ambition for the club, in the many years of supporting Wrexham, has always been , and still is winning games and the subsequent prizes that brings...
I'm as frustrated as anybody, being stuck in this league and our expectations always seem to slap us in the mush......

I suppose it was that frustration that led me to start a thread. Can't think of any other reason:o

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=Wrexham's Patrick Bateman;2072020]Do we expect too much from our professional players.....After all, they're just a hare's breath from working in proper jobs..
[/QUOTE]

No. If anything it should be the other way around.

Clubs in the Championship are now full of foreign players, let alone the Premiership. So if British players want to play first team football a lot of them have to play a level or two below where they would have been playing 15 years ago.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=JonWrexhamfc;2072296]No. For twenty quid i expect us to be beating Guiseley and putting them to the sword. That isn't expecting too much.[/QUOTE]

In your opinion which you are entitled to. I prefer to take the longer view and see Saturday as a mixture of a horrible opponent, a weak ref and yes poor tactics / selection combined with an under par team performance. But I have learned never to 'expect' anything in football.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=eastsussexred;2072282]Asking too much? We are the longest remaing ex-league club still in this division. The fact that someone is even asking 'do we expect too much' just shows how far our ambitions have declined.[/QUOTE]

This for me is the problem. We've been down here so long a large portion of the fanbase have now accepted mediocrity as the norm. And until this mentality changes to, nothing less than 3 points every week is acceptable ala Luton, Bris R, we won't go up. We've got to become horrible ba*tards to win promotion. Bully our way out of the league. Teams don't fear coming here. They hated going to Kenilworth road. Far too many people are accepting draws at home to Guiseley because ''It's another game unbeaten''. This is the problem.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

I don't expect guaranteed results, but I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting commitment, effort, organisation, professionalism, and competitiveness from our team. Otherwise what's the point ? If the players and manager aren't looking to win every time they play we may as well stop now.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

I expect footballers to try and play football. So about half the team have dissapoubted me.

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

:eek:

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

I expect nothing and the club still let me down!

Re: Do we expect too much...
 

[QUOTE=JonWrexhamfc;2072307]This for me is the problem. We've been down here so long a large portion of the fanbase have now accepted mediocrity as the norm. And until this mentality changes to, nothing less than 3 points every week is acceptable ala Luton, Bris R, we won't go up. We've got to become horrible ba*tards to win promotion. Bully our way out of the league. Teams don't fear coming here. They hated going to Kenilworth road. Far too many people are accepting draws at home to Guiseley because ''It's another game unbeaten''. This is the problem.[/QUOTE]

When has the fans mentality ever been a factor with football results, unless you mean:
a). passionate, rousing support assists teams succeed and negative, frustrated crowds put their own team under pressure.
Or
b). The clubs with the most hard-core fans who turn up through thick and thin usually prosper and end up higher up the pyramid, compared to poorly supported teams with fickle support, exceptiins being heavily financed clubs from elsewhere.

We can complain, stamp our feet, stay away or whatever but what improvement will it bring to performances or results?