Some facts - not false news.

[GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo]

Originally Posted by Redrobinman

I think I’m a fairly relaxed individual to be honest.

As for opinions, they’re fine. It’s just when they spout what are either clearly lies or nonsense as facts, that it irks me.
Moreso when they are picked up on it and can’t back them up with either logic or evidence. Or they deny they typed it in the first place. ie giggggggettty on this thread. Some are also prone to using PM’s........
There are only a few on here that are prone to it, but yes I do tend to put an “edge” on my posts when responding to them.

Still can't for the life of me see where I said a long term plan was bearing fruit at Tamworth, only regarding the academy.

Fact.

[RemovedUser]

Originally Posted by pagl

I was referring to LAAR as the 'prove it' twin - LOL

Yes for specifics then proof is very much required but this is an opinions board and asking for proof of an opinion isn't possible. Not everything has to have proof is what I was pointing out. It could be turned round to say please provide proof that this isn't true.

We all speculate on some things and that's fine - its good to get a healthy debate going but without the need to insult people just because we disagree.

My opinion is that we don't have the right structure in place - do I need proof?

I think you have some very good opinions!
Mostly they seem well thought out, and worthy, and I enjoy reading them.

As regards our structure, I am sure there are changes that could be made to make it more efficient, but I don’t sign up to the “fans should be told of every decision made by the Board” philosophy.
I believe people need to understand that, given our financial structure, we are somewhat hamstrung in what we can realistically do.

There follows a long post which a lot of people on here won’t bother to read, but may explain why I tend to get frustrated with certain posters on here. Bear with me, please.

People who, for example advocate that we should invest in, and keep hold of our youth, or push the boat out and “go for it” bringing in the likes of Cook etc etc, need to realise that these things just aren’t possible.......even if was the sensible thing to do (which it clearly isn’t). We just haven't got the boat to push out in the first place.

Here is the the reality (fact not opinion) of us in the real world, and if people would only acknowledge this reality before saying we should do this that or the other, it would save a lot of nonsense, going over the same ground time and time again:

Just suppose we wanted to “go for it” and a delegation from the Board pop along the the Clubs Bank and present to them a business case for, say, a 5 year plan to restore us to our former status.
The business case is well constructed and carries the support of both the Football Club Board and the WST (fans).
The Bankers also agree that the plans a well structured, thought out and perhaps achievable within the timescale.
They are prepared to lend the Club up to perhaps £5 million. This is good news until the Bank ask the Board what security and/or collateral they have available.

We have a long term lease on our business premises, but its value is limited because it can only be used for its current purposes. Other than that, we only have players contract values and the net of trade debtors and creditors.

The Club is currently profitable, but such profitability is dependent on a number of uncertain circumstances, and as such can't be guaranteed into the future.
There are no owners (fans) prepared or able to provide guarantees and/or security to the Bank, so understandably the Bank don’t feel inclined to provide finance.

So, unless Foxys investors (they are out there apparently) step up, pass due diligence and stump up the cash and take over the Club, AND provide the aforementioned £5million investment budget, we have what we currently have, and must continue to work with it.

The fact that we are currently profitable and have eliminated the long term debt previously weighing the business down is a credit to the Board, and by extension, the fans.

Let’s give ourselves a bit of credit for that and make sure the employees (players) are made fully aware of these facts, and let them know that they did indeed bottle it or down tools with 9 games to go (my opinion) and should take responsibility for not doing their collective jobs at the pointy end of last season, and not to let it happen again!!

[Todd Sweeney]

Originally Posted by Redrobinman

I think you have some very good opinions!
Mostly they seem well thought out, and worthy, and I enjoy reading them.

As regards our structure, I am sure there are changes that could be made to make it more efficient, but I don’t sign up to the “fans should be told of every decision made by the Board” philosophy.
I believe people need to understand that, given our financial structure, we are somewhat hamstrung in what we can realistically do.

There follows a long post which a lot of people on here won’t bother to read, but may explain why I tend to get frustrated with certain posters on here. Bear with me, please.

People who, for example advocate that we should invest in, and keep hold of our youth, or push the boat out and “go for it” bringing in the likes of Cook etc etc, need to realise that these things just aren’t possible.......even if was the sensible thing to do (which it clearly isn’t). We just haven't got the boat to push out in the first place.

Here is the the reality (fact not opinion) of us in the real world, and if people would only acknowledge this reality before saying we should do this that or the other, it would save a lot of nonsense, going over the same ground time and time again:

Just suppose we wanted to “go for it” and a delegation from the Board pop along the the Clubs Bank and present to them a business case for, say, a 5 year plan to restore us to our former status.
The business case is well constructed and carries the support of both the Football Club Board and the WST (fans).
The Bankers also agree that the plans a well structured, thought out and perhaps achievable within the timescale.
They are prepared to lend the Club up to perhaps £5 million. This is good news until the Bank ask the Board what security and/or collateral they have available.

We have a long term lease on our business premises, but its value is limited because it can only be used for its current purposes. Other than that, we only have players contract values and the net of trade debtors and creditors.

The Club is currently profitable, but such profitability is dependent on a number of uncertain circumstances, and as such can't be guaranteed into the future.
There are no owners (fans) prepared or able to provide guarantees and/or security to the Bank, so understandably the Bank don’t feel inclined to provide finance.

So, unless Foxys investors (they are out there apparently) step up, pass due diligence and stump up the cash and take over the Club, AND provide the aforementioned £5million investment budget, we have what we currently have, and must continue to work with it.

The fact that we are currently profitable and have eliminated the long term debt previously weighing the business down is a credit to the Board, and by extension, the fans.

Let’s give ourselves a bit of credit for that and make sure the employees (players) are made fully aware of these facts, and let them know that they did indeed bottle it or down tools with 9 games to go (my opinion) and should take responsibility for not doing their collective jobs at the pointy end of last season, and not to let it happen again!!

Very well summarised.

[pagl]

RRM, not going to quote your post but I have also stated that too much time and effort is given to how much we get for this player and how much that player costs. We dont need to know.

However we should be informed of strategic plans so we can buy into them, thats one of my points.

[RemovedUser]

Originally Posted by pagl

RRM, not going to quote your post but I have also stated that too much time and effort is given to how much we get for this player and how much that player costs. We dont need to know.

However we should be informed of strategic plans so we can buy into them, thats one of my points.

I agree.
Though I thought the strategic plan was to get to L2.
That’s the one I buy into every month, and we can only achieve it on the pitch, so we have keep at it.

[pagl]

Originally Posted by Redrobinman

I agree.
Though I thought the strategic plan was to get to L2.
That’s the one I buy into every month, and we can only achieve it on the pitch, so we have keep at it.

Thats the aim but whats the plan to achieve it.

My aim is to win the lottery but I need a plan that is better than buying 2 tickets a week. We can all have aims and goals but they are pointless without a plan to achieve them.

[Wrexham's Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by pagl

Thats the aim but whats the plan to achieve it.

My aim is to win the lottery but I need a plan that is better than buying 2 tickets a week. We can all have aims and goals but they are pointless without a plan to achieve them.

Don't give up Pagl....You could be our Sugar Daddie one day...

[Jaded]

Originally Posted by Redrobinman

I agree.
Though I thought the strategic plan was to get to L2.
That’s the one I buy into every month, and we can only achieve it on the pitch, so we have keep at it.

Should we think about possible ways to maximise the likelihood that we’ll achieve this? Or just keep going the same way which hasn’t been working particularly well for several seasons?

[eosceiriog]

Originally Posted by Redrobinman

I agree.
Though I thought the strategic plan was to get to L2.
That’s the one I buy into every month, and we can only achieve it on the pitch, so we have keep at it.

Just to be technical that is the (a) mission, or a step in achieving the mission.

To me the mission should to be at least an established well run L1 club capable of challenging for promotion to the Championship (e.g. Salop). Anything less is not restoring WFC to its former status.

The fact that we are not clear about the mission and the plan to achieve it is indicative that PAGL is on the money if not in the money!!!

This in turn leads to misunderstandings and confusion on this board where people who actually substantially agree end up arguing. Leadership is needed to clarify and deliver.