Some facts - not false news.

[Todd Sweeney]

Originally Posted by pagl

Maybe JND and myself should be PM'ing on this but it is an opinions board after all and I think this is the forum to discuss things as I am not airing any grievances at all. JND asked a question and I replied with my opinion.

I am not frustrated as it is what it is - my points are about what some perceive as actual plans and that the WST have all strategic matters in hand and they are actually measuring and/or refining plans according to their aims & goals.

There is probably no more a staunch WST supporter than you but can you really tell me that they have got the strategic elements under control and progressing (other than clearing the debts, living within our means...…).
Why do YOU think that not many people put their names forward as you keep suggesting they will be welcome, welcome in what capacity though.

I could reel off many instances of ideas, suggestions etc. that have been forwarded and I will still nail my hat on my statement they have lots of people with the skills already in place. My opinion is that they are poorly executed.

Do I need to re-iterate membership which has grown by what 100 and for me it seems the plan is to on-board new members when they apply and there is no plan to actively contact lapsed members and bring them back into the fold.
If there is then I haven't seen it happening. Maybe you know differently and can advise how this is working.

This isn't WST slating its just me saying that I think there is a lot of politics that goes on with all of this and some people would prefer to know what is needed to be done and then get on with doing it.

As I said maybe you have more insider knowledge that you could share an advise on the difficulties that they face and why something like Jonseys bar was not done so that it replaced the 2 separate kiosks in the Tech End. Was it money - if so then was there an appeal for materials/skills to actually build a new kiosk under the stand. Likewise a tented place at the Mold road/Tech end, the space is there but it requires people to follow it through and it seems to me that there are people that want to be on committees but then just don't have the time to complete things, which is understandable as we all have the pull of other forces in our lives. Lets just be open about what the real issues are.

You should address your questions to the board; I don't have the answers.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but in my experience just assuming other people think like you, or expecting them to do things as you want them to be done, doesn't work. You need to raise it with them and have an input, and find out the reasoning behind their current way of doing things.

The club doesn't run itself; it requires people to donate their time, expertise and/or ideas. If you have any of those, then you should give them to the WST board.

[Willywill]

Just saying, my arse !

[pagl]

Originally Posted by Willywill

Just saying, my arse !

Never said anything about your arse

[pagl]

Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney

You should address your questions to the board; I don't have the answers.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but in my experience just assuming other people think like you, or expecting them to do things as you want them to be done, doesn't work. You need to raise it with them and have an input, and find out the reasoning behind their current way of doing things.

The club doesn't run itself; it requires people to donate their time, expertise and/or ideas. If you have any of those, then you should give them to the WST board.

You say you don't have the answers yet you point out that I am wrong. Hmmm how do you know I am wrong - do you think I haven't put forward any ideas?

My expectations are that we have a board that will define aims/goals and then have a plan to carry them out - that's all I am saying. Why should I have to contact them to see if they are working as surely they should be reporting to the owners that a) worked but b) didn't and we need to refine it.

You seem to be defensive for the sake of it when you don't have all the facts either. I have asked you if you think membership is working but you fail to answer because to do so would then be seen as being critical of the establishment.

I work with teams in Holland and they decide something and get it done, they don't have all this - cant do this, cant do that PC stuff. Put something in place and then go for it. That's what we should be doing and my main criticism is that to me and other outsiders then it seems everyone has to take things to the board when it should be the board taking it to the customers and potential customers.

Rather than be completely defensive then open your mind to the possibilities of making thing happen. There is some great work done by media team and others but we need to see it right across the board.

[Todd Sweeney]

Originally Posted by pagl

You say you don't have the answers yet you point out that I am wrong. Hmmm how do you know I am wrong - do you think I haven't put forward any ideas?

My expectations are that we have a board that will define aims/goals and then have a plan to carry them out - that's all I am saying. Why should I have to contact them to see if they are working as surely they should be reporting to the owners that a) worked but b) didn't and we need to refine it.

You seem to be defensive for the sake of it when you don't have all the facts either. I have asked you if you think membership is working but you fail to answer because to do so would then be seen as being critical of the establishment.

I work with teams in Holland and they decide something and get it done, they don't have all this - cant do this, cant do that PC stuff. Put something in place and then go for it. That's what we should be doing and my main criticism is that to me and other outsiders then it seems everyone has to take things to the board when it should be the board taking it to the customers and potential customers.

Rather than be completely defensive then open your mind to the possibilities of making thing happen. There is some great work done by media team and others but we need to see it right across the board.

How odd. You quoted my post but your reply seems to bear no relation to what I actually said.

There doesn't seem to be much point in wasting energy debating this further, since you clearly feel the best way of getting things done is to not approach or be part of the group tasked by the supporters/owners with getting things done. Good luck!

[WrexhamO]

Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney

How odd. You quoted my post but your reply seems to bear no relation to what I actually said.

There doesn't seem to be much point in wasting energy debating this further, since you clearly feel the best way of getting things done is to not approach or be part of the group tasked by the supporters/owners with getting things done. Good luck!

I believe PAGL already works with the club on BTB.

[Todd Sweeney]

Originally Posted by WrexhamO

I believe PAGL already works with the club on BTB.

As the club was very happy to take this on and work with him on it, I'm therefore flummoxed by some of his posts on this thread. They are clearly keen to listen to ideas from supporters, and that is a shining example.

[The Only Way Is Up]

Some people here approve of the Trust, and others don't. It's like everything else on the planet, be that the weather, politics, or the price of fish.

However...

There are some on here who's opinions about matters are expressed in a cynical and unwarranted manner. That applies in particular to those who argue against the Trust. Note, ARGUE, not express an opinion.

I doubt that many sane individuals who enjoy peaceful evenings at home after a hard day's work would willingly volunteer to be verbally abused by those who think they do a poor job but who aren't prepared to explain just how they would go about producing the better results that they are looking for.

That's not a "put up or shut up" request. Ideas are welcome, but shooting people down with little or no knowledge of what they do in their capacities in the Trust is a route to putting people off from volunteering their ideas or services. It smacks of the playground bully - the ignorant one that had plenty to say until his victim clacked him one. As has been said, ideas are welcome, and so is criticism where the problem can be identified and an alternative put forward. That applies equally to personalities as it does to plans that fail to provide their objectives.

Debate is fair enough, and RP is well known for providing it in spades. No-one is saying that debate shouldn't continue, but let's not put some people off the idea of making positive contributions for the (justifiable) fear that they will meet with criticism as soon as anything fails to meet a few fans' unqualified and possibly impossible expectations.

[pagl]

Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney

How odd. You quoted my post but your reply seems to bear no relation to what I actually said.

There doesn't seem to be much point in wasting energy debating this further, since you clearly feel the best way of getting things done is to not approach or be part of the group tasked by the supporters/owners with getting things done. Good luck!

Really! I had some opinions on which you either disagreed or didn't have the answers so all I was asking was that you made a statement about me being wrong and therefore what this was based on. I used the membership as an example but again you had no opinion or facts on whether it was working or not!

I am happy to debate the point, just as I have said I have put forward ideas or suggestions and BTB aside nothing has materialised. So again I asked you why people didn't volunteer - is there a general feeling that these views are not really heard. Would be interested in your opinion.

I am really too long in the tooth now to push and push to be part of a group and as I have said I think the WST probably has enough experts in these areas to make plans to achieve aims and goals. If they are not achieved then what can I do or Eosceiriog, Bagger or any of the other voices of reason (as I see them).

As I also said what skills etc. do any of the groups need to achieve some of their aims - I haven't heard anything, have you?

If I go back to my main points - WST should be strategic and planning and WAFC operations then we can see that clear boundaries can be defined and clear aims and goals set and achieved by both parties without impinging on the other.

Your stance is to repeat the same mantra in that the only way to achieve change is that everyone that has an opinion/idea then has to stand for election and be part of some committee - well a lot of fans with great ideas don't have the time or the inclination so do we just ignore them.

Again I point to membership - so what are your views on the growth of membership by the WST, is it working, can it be improved and what do we aim for and measure as success.

Come on stop with this three line whip stuff and provide some feedback