Strong and weak positions in our squad

[AndyCobra]

Originally Posted by Cenotaff

I think he's just sick and tired of reading the same people ragging on the club and players regardless of where we are in the league. The 98 point season we had our own fans ragging on players on here ffs. There's nothing wrong with wanting more but for some, nothing will ever be enough and it'll be constant jibes or criticism. At that stage then you're pissing against the end. It's frustration, just like you get frustrated at other things. The fans aren't to blame but we do love to stick the boot into the club, as soon as a player is linked people are off to Wiki to judge his height or stats, they're then deemed shite regardless of what their overall game can contribute with others, as a team. Any interview given by a player or manager is dissected 72 ways to pick on any turn of phrase that can be held against them.

What Sam Ricketts feels he can see as quality/qualities may not match up with your own. Nobody is right or wrong as much as people don't want to admit it. Over the time we've been in this league we should know by now that consistent is the last thing this league is and therefore, so are the vast majority of players that don't get a move up. There have been players banging them in one season to do sod all the next so it's not just as simple as looking at the list of top scores and saying, oh, I'll have him and him and then we'll get 40 goals out of them next season.

You've got no idea if Hinds is too good for this league, whether Fondop-Talom will score 3 or 30. Young and Summerfield, on paper look very astute signings but they could be trash. The likes of Vernon, Shevchenko, Falcao, Torres etc etc look like more than enough quality when they signed and they did sod all and cost an absolute packet whilst failing after great records and proof that they were quality.

If you don't think we've signed quality players, fine, that's your opinion, you're welcome to it but people rant on like it's a fact before the manager has had time to work with them over a solid period of time and before the players have had a decent number of fully competitive games to show what they've got and maybe things they've learned from the staff. Constantly going on that Ricketts hasn't brought in quality doesn't make it a fact. Losing games and playing shite makes it more of a fact but we can't judge that yet.

The real fact is that 99.9% of fans just look at stats or YouTube clips to decide the quality of a player. People watch the odd game on TV, and see other teams once or twice a season at best in person usually then act like they remember all the players to play against us and act like 2/3 games is a scouting mission and they have the low-down on players.

Ricketts may only see a similar number of games but he and the likes of Barrow will also see things that us fans won't, things that they think they can coach into them to take them to the next level. Lord knows we've had so many players who've had some brilliant games where they look unplayable at times but have generally been poor and offered very little. If you just caught them on the rare occasion when they've turned it on then you can easily think we're getting quality when we're getting a dud.

People do quick to use stats to beat up new signings with can also be the first ones to ignore or downplay the stats on Rutherford being an assist machine. You can't have it both ways.

All I'm trying to ask for is some balance, not be so dead set on something before it's happened and to let the team play a good few games before we properly start casting judgement.

I probably should have made this a new topic about how we perceive signings but I need to say my piece in here.

This isn't aimed specifically at you, pagl, it's for everybody, froth lickers, clap chompers, lefties, righties, shake it all aroundies.

Nothing to add but well said.

Lets now get behind the team.

[billybersham]

Originally Posted by Cenotaff

I think he's just sick and tired of reading the same people ragging on the club and players regardless of where we are in the league. The 98 point season we had our own fans ragging on players on here ffs. There's nothing wrong with wanting more but for some, nothing will ever be enough and it'll be constant jibes or criticism. At that stage then you're pissing against the wind. It's frustration, just like you get frustrated at other things. The fans aren't to blame but we do love to stick the boot into the club, as soon as a player is linked people are off to Wiki to judge his height or stats, they're then deemed shite regardless of what their overall game can contribute with others, as a team. Any interview given by a player or manager is dissected 72 ways to pick on any turn of phrase that can be held against them.

What Sam Ricketts feels he can see as quality/qualities may not match up with your own. Nobody is right or wrong as much as people don't want to admit it. Over the time we've been in this league we should know by now that consistent is the last thing this league is and therefore, so are the vast majority of players that don't get a move up. There have been players banging them in one season to do sod all the next so it's not just as simple as looking at the list of top scores and saying, oh, I'll have him and him and then we'll get 40 goals out of them next season.

You've got no idea if Hinds is too good for this league, whether Fondop-Talom will score 3 or 30. Young and Summerfield, on paper look very astute signings but they could be trash. The likes of Vernon, Shevchenko, Falcao, Torres etc etc look like more than enough quality when they signed and they did sod all and cost an absolute packet whilst failing after great records and proof that they were quality.

If you don't think we've signed quality players, fine, that's your opinion, you're welcome to it but people rant on like it's a fact before the manager has had time to work with them over a solid period of time and before the players have had a decent number of fully competitive games to show what they've got and maybe things they've learned from the staff. Constantly going on that Ricketts hasn't brought in quality doesn't make it a fact. Losing games and playing shite makes it more of a fact but we can't judge that yet.

The real fact is that 99.9% of fans just look at stats or YouTube clips to decide the quality of a player. People watch the odd game on TV, and see other teams once or twice a season at best in person usually then act like they remember all the players to play against us and act like 2/3 games is a scouting mission and they have the low-down on players.

Ricketts may only see a similar number of games but he and the likes of Barrow will also see things that us fans won't, things that they think they can coach into them to take them to the next level. Lord knows we've had so many players who've had some brilliant games where they look unplayable at times but have generally been poor and offered very little. If you just caught them on the rare occasion when they've turned it on then you can easily think we're getting quality when we're getting a dud.

People do quick to use stats to beat up new signings with can also be the first ones to ignore or downplay the stats on Rutherford being an assist machine. You can't have it both ways.

All I'm trying to ask for is some balance, not be so dead set on something before it's happened and to let the team play a good few games before we properly start casting judgement.

I probably should have made this a new topic about how we perceive signings but I need to say my piece in here.

This isn't aimed specifically at you, pagl, it's for everybody, froth lickers, clap chompers, lefties, righties, shake it all aroundies.

Love the bit on Rutherford being an assist machine when we did not score that many goals,also when we played 30 matches with a seven man defence who else is going to give assists to our strikers!

[billybersham]

Originally Posted by DenbighRed

My view of the squad is that it’s looking better than it was 10 days ago, but still not up to the level required to challenge for anything serious, for the following reasons:

Neither keeper is proven. I actually think Dunn was better than both keepers we have this season, so in that sense we’ve gone backwards. Say what you like about him, but you don’t keep 23 league clean sheets being shit.

Jennings is the weak link in an otherwise solid defence. He seems to be liable to get caught in possession at least once a game, putting the opposition on the front foot. I also worry that we capitulate defensively if Pearson is out.

Midfield looks tidy, especially Young, but I can’t help feel we’ll miss Wedgbury’s work rate. I know he divided opinion, but I rated him. Hopefully Akil can fill that gap. I also don’t see any of the midfielders chipping in with 10 goals, Deverdics has a big role as the creative force.

Fondop has looked good so far, but there’s a lot of pressure on a lad starting his first season as a full-pro to lead the line and score goals. If he can’t do that we’re essentially relying on loanees. I hope to god Big Mike delivers the goods.

All in all I don’t think the squad looks massively better than last season’s and I’d have taken Quigley back in a heartbeat. I actually think the league will be more competitive this season, so I’m predicting a 10th place finish.

Excellent post Denbigh i agree with everything you say.

[Cenotaff]

Originally Posted by billybersham

Love the bit on Rutherford being an assist machine when we did not score that many goals,also when we played 30 matches with a seven man defence who else is going to give assists to our strikers!

He had 12 league assists by January last season, I'm not sure how many he ended up with. 12 assists is good for a season, let alone by January in a team that you have just said, and pretty much every fan would say, didn't score enough last season. It's hardly the mocking statement that you're trying to make it out to be.

[noisy1]

Originally Posted by billybersham

Love the bit on Rutherford being an assist machine when we did not score that many goals,also when we played 30 matches with a seven man defence who else is going to give assists to our strikers!

If it wasn't for Rutherford's assists we would have been right in the shit. Give the lad some credit FFS!

[pagl]

Good post Cenotaff.
I think it has all been about expectation especially with a new manager coming in.

My hopes and expectations were higher, yes you’re right.
I am disappointed with some signings, particularly Lainton and Pyke and year long loans is a risk and a restriction IMO.

Sam is still tinkering with the formation so it seems and I dont think he knows if 4231, 433 or 4132 is best. Any option requires better all round performances than last year as any chain is only as strong as its weakest link and all that.

I do expect an initial backing for Sam but think he will need to earn anything long term with our league position.

[willyheckerslike]

Originally Posted by LMH23

Why'd you take him to the Boston game and stop him watching?

He started playing U7 mini soccer on saturdays the season after and his Mum wouldnt let him go to midweek matches as it was too late getting home on a school night.....as you are aware after that we have havent played a game in the football league.....ok with that?.......but you have missed the point and choose to ignore the main issue raised. Thankfully he has remained a loyal fan and attended games with me when he was not playing football matches himself.....which included 3 years at Wrexham FC CofE and then Welsh Prem Academy league games. Just pleased that unlike his mates he still wears our shirt and not a merseyside or manchester jersey😉

[Funny_Old_Game]

We are strong at centre back and weak everywhere else, pretty simple.

[Dougie Davies]

Originally Posted by ruthinred

Says the armchair fan from Ipswich

If hardly call any fans at this level armchair fans