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-   -   Big Den rejects offer! (http://www.redpassion.co.uk/forums/wrexham/113023-big-den-rejects-offer.html)

Junior Shabadoo 10th December 2018 12.09:56

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Funny_Old_Game;2205244]Barrow has only been here 5 months, Iím not sure why we are treating him as though heís Joey Jones.[/QUOTE]

The internet, everyone. The club is trying to impose some order on this situation, not making Graham Barrow the King of Wrexham. You donít have to agree with the choice but this kind of hyperbole is just silly.

Corner Flag 10th December 2018 12.10:45

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Funny_Old_Game;2205244]Barrow has only been here 5 months, Iím not sure why we are treating him as though heís Joey Jones.[/QUOTE]

Barrow is highly experienced and a bloody good bloke. I expect Barrow will be used to mentor yet another rookie manager and that can't be a bad thing .

robiethered 10th December 2018 12.13:36

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
I was in favour in DL as our new manager, but not at 150,000. He's not worth that at all. Time for us to choose somebody else and move on.

Prodigal Dragon 10th December 2018 12.14:26

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Corner Flag;2205265]Barrow is highly experienced and a bloody good bloke. I expect Barrow will be used to mentor yet another rookie manager and that can't be a bad thing .[/QUOTE]

Agree. Furthermore, our performances in the 2 games since Ricketts left have shown a marked improvement.

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 12.17:00

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Junior Shabadoo;2205261]Itís as correct a choice as you get in 2018. What Sam did (less so with Keates) was dirty but at some point we have to accept that this is the game now, all the way up to the top. Criticism of not taking us up barely applies in these instances given the timing of their departures. The sheer level of criticism aimed at both men for leaving shows you that both were right for the job.[/QUOTE]

Right for the job but walked as soon as the opportunity arose? Hmm, I get your point but I'm not so sure.
Not taking us up, in the context of who is the right choice is ultimately what we judge them on though isn't it?
Morrell took us closest but some folk on here seem to hate the guy more than Mills.

But Macc had Askey, Lincoln had the Cowleys, Luton had Still. I'd say they were the correct choice.

Prodigal Dragon 10th December 2018 12.18:09

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=robiethered;2205266]I was in favour in DL as our new manager, but not at 150,000. He's not worth that at all. Time for us to choose somebody else and move on.[/QUOTE]

I agree that £150k for a WREXHAM manager in the National League would be silly money. However, we donít actually know that Lawrence has applied and, furthermore, if he has demanded £150k.

If someone wants to muddy the waters to put fans off an individual, what better tactic than to claim they are a money grabber?

Letís see what happens.;)

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 12.19:43

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Junior Shabadoo;2205264]The internet, everyone. The club is trying to impose some order on this situation, not making Graham Barrow the King of Wrexham. You donít have to agree with the choice but this kind of hyperbole is just silly.[/QUOTE]

No one said the club was, its some fans that are making him out to be king and in reality its based on very little.

Controversial I know but it was the same with Glen Little.

Hero status that was never earned.

fezbob 10th December 2018 12.21:39

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205270]No one said the club was, its some fans that are making him out to be king and in reality its based on very little.

Controversial I know but [B]it was the same with Glen Little.[/B]

Hero status that was never earned.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/117/photos/200000/936x622/105200.jpg[/IMG]

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 12.22:17

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Prodigal Dragon;2205269]I agree that £150k for a WREXHAM manager in the National League would be silly money. However, we donít actually know that Lawrence has applied and, furthermore, if he has demanded £150k.

If someone wants to muddy the waters to put fans off an individual, what better tactic than to claim they are a money grabber?

Letís see what happens.;)[/QUOTE]

Or if some have agendas for a certain person to get the job here, continue to laud him and say "he's my choice" with little basis to that argument in comparison to other candidates.;)

Junior Shabadoo 10th December 2018 12.24:33

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205268]Right for the job but walked as soon as the opportunity arose? Hmm, I get your point but I'm not so sure.
Not taking us up, in the context of who is the right choice is ultimately what we judge them on though isn't it?
Morrell took us closest but some folk on here seem to hate the guy more than Mills.

But Macc had Askey, Lincoln had the Cowleys, Luton had Still. I'd say they were the correct choice.[/QUOTE]

If they leave after three or four goes then that performance is questionable. Neither completing one makes it more muddy as both were on the right path.

There are a few Morrell haters but thereís no stopping that kind of idiocy; he ultimately wasnít good enough in the transfer market and it cost him his job after the first bad season. Anyone who loathes him for that should see a doctor.

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 12.24:50

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2205271][IMG]https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/117/photos/200000/936x622/105200.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:D

Its true though!

davewilli 10th December 2018 12.26:28

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Prodigal Dragon;2205267]Agree. Furthermore, our performances in the 2 games since Ricketts left have shown a marked improvement.[/QUOTE]

I agree too, but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on 2 games, many teams have a change in form with a managerial change/temporary change. We inly have to remember last season some saying AD was a breath of fresh air with a more expansive approach in his initial games than that used by DK. I think the difference being GB is proven, vastly experienced and will have seen it all in his time.

benwilliams 10th December 2018 12.28:43

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
It's clear from interviews that the players have immense respect for GB, not sure that was the case with AD.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Prodigal Dragon 10th December 2018 12.31:53

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205272]Or if some have agendas for a certain person to get the job here, continue to laud him and say "he's my choice" with little basis to that argument in comparison to other candidates.;)[/QUOTE]

That is all down to opinions.

You back Askey, and there are reasons why he might be the right guy.

But others - myself included - think last seasonís achievement might not be repeatable.

Askey is an experienced NL manager, which immediately sets off alarm bells in my head. Your fear seems to be that any up and coming newbee manager will up sticks at the drop of a hat. Keates and Ricketts supports your theory, but their actions are not guaranteed to be repeated.

Ultimately, choosing a successful manager has a big element of luck.

Furthermore, I agree that GB does not yet deserve cult status but, equally, you seem to want to skim over his proven experience - at a higher level than Askey. We are also playing better football since he took the reins.

Finally, having signed an assistant manager before appointing the manager is unusual and potentially disruptive. But only if the Board appoint the wrong man.

RED2309 10th December 2018 12.42:47

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Prodigal Dragon;2205277]That is all down to opinions.

You back Askey, and there are reasons why he might be the right guy.

But others - myself included - think last seasonís achievement might not be repeatable.

Askey is an experienced NL manager, which immediately sets off alarm bells in my head. Your fear seems to be that any up and coming newbee manager will up sticks at the drop of a hat. Keates and Ricketts supports your theory, but their actions are not guaranteed to be repeated.

Ultimately, choosing a successful manager has a big element of luck.

Furthermore, I agree that GB does not yet deserve cult status but, equally, you seem to want to skim over his proven experience - at a higher level than Askey. We are also playing better football since he took the reins.

Finally, having signed an assistant manager before appointing the manager is unusual and potentially disruptive. But only if the Board appoint the wrong man.[/QUOTE]

It all points to the board having somebody in mind who Askey knows and has ok'd probably rules out Askey.

This would also suit the theory of the club doing succession planning.

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 12.46:36

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Prodigal Dragon;2205277]That is all down to opinions.

You back Askey, and there are reasons why he might be the right guy.

But others - myself included - think last seasonís achievement might not be repeatable.

Askey is an experienced NL manager, which immediately sets off alarm bells in my head. Your fear seems to be that any up and coming newbee manager will up sticks at the drop of a hat. Keates and Ricketts supports your theory, but their actions are not guaranteed to be repeated.

Ultimately, choosing a successful manager has a big element of luck.

Furthermore, I agree that GB does not yet deserve cult status but, equally, you seem to want to skim over his proven experience - at a higher level than Askey. We are also playing better football since he took the reins.

Finally, having signed an assistant manager before appointing the manager is unusual and potentially disruptive. But only if the Board appoint the wrong man.[/QUOTE]

I back Askey only if itís between him and DL. Itís a no brainer.
One has experience in this league, years of it, the other has none.
One has recently had unexpected success, the other has none and isnít exactly ripping it up in his current job.
When did I compare Askey to Barrow? Iíll give barrow hero status when heís earnt it.

Applying your logic to recruitment outside of football would be laughed at but you seem to think itís fine to apply it here. Experience gets you the job. Itís really simple.

northwalian dragon 10th December 2018 12.50:31

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205272]Or if some have agendas for a certain person to get the job here, continue to laud him and say "he's my choice" with little basis to that argument in comparison to other candidates.;)[/QUOTE]

You're talking about yourself, right?

redone 10th December 2018 13.01:00

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205287]I back Askey only if itís between him and DL. Itís a no brainer.
One has experience in this league, years of it, the other has none.
One has recently had unexpected success, the other has none and isnít exactly ripping it up in his current job.
When did I compare Askey to Barrow? Iíll give barrow hero status when heís earnt it.

Applying your logic to recruitment outside of football would be laughed at but you seem to think itís fine to apply it here. Experience gets you the job. Itís really simple.[/QUOTE]

your spot on the mark here PAA

bowler 10th December 2018 13.03:06

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
On no account should the club appoint Askey did ok after how many years at Macclesfield ? A complete flop at Shrewsbury not a patch in experience to Barrow give Askey a wide berth he's not for Wrexham. I for one will stop going if he becomes the manager. Useless prick wait till January which I think is on the cards then Dennis Lawrence will walk cos his contract is up with T.T.

Ooh aah Paskin 10th December 2018 13.04:25

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
My only concern with Askey is his experience in non league! He has managed at this level all his career but only had one successful season. he 'Failed' at his stab of League management so does this tell us something?
Is this his level, and is he not actually that good at this level? Or have his hands been tied by budgets etc?

I'm not ruling him out but its not that sparkling a managerial career if you want to analyse it in depth.

On the other hand Lawrence has no experience in this league but has coached or managed at a higher level (just, in the case of T & T!) and would have Barrow alongside him for that experience of this level. Keates and Ricketts have surely got to be considered 'successful' despite their lack of experience as they have both been head hunted by league clubs, so inexperience should not be used as a dismissive element.

I don't know which way the board will turn but I don't think any choice or name put forward so far is a 'no brainer'.

waxcrayon 10th December 2018 13.07:11

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=bowler;2205293]On no account should the club appoint Askey did ok after how many years at Macclesfield ? A complete flop at Shrewsbury not a patch in experience to Barrow give Askey a wide berth he's not for Wrexham. I for one will stop going if he becomes the manager. Useless prick wait till January which I think is on the cards then Dennis Lawrence will walk cos his contract is up with T.T.[/QUOTE]
Are you on a wind up?

bowler 10th December 2018 13.11:22

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
Agree. It could someone outside the box as Sam the Snake was.

bowler 10th December 2018 13.16:26

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
It's not a wind up not good enough he will end up at Chester or some lower league club. 3 months at Shrewsbury shows his ability once he left Danny Coyne took over went six straight wins.Sam the Snake is no better will be finish the season only time will tell.

southcoastexpress 10th December 2018 13.28:52

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2205224]Were you convinced Keates and Ricketts were the right men?[/QUOTE]

No were you?I regarded Keates as somewhat petulant and one of the bad apples who made life difficult for Kevin Wilkin who deserved more support.It was also rumoured that he wasn't too popular at Rhyl.And didn't he make a huge fuss when only offered a one year contract?
I was happier with Ricketts ,not hearing any negatives,but was concerned at his lack of managing men but this was soon dispelled and I was disappointed at the manner of his departure,particularly as he knew how much Keates had hurt the club and the fans by leaving us in the lurch.
Big Den would give things a go butAskey or Challinor have done well in this league and in my opinion would be a better bet to thrive on the bigger stage at Wrexham.

Ipswich Red 10th December 2018 13.30:27

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=robiethered;2205266]I was in favour in DL as our new manager, but not at 150,000. He's not worth that at all. Time for us to choose somebody else and move on.[/QUOTE]

It depends whether we're paying by the inch!!

southcoastexpress 10th December 2018 13.35:32

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
Wilkin not Wilkinson! Predictive text��

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 14.04:31

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=northwalian dragon;2205288]You're talking about yourself, right?[/QUOTE]

Ssssh, adults are talking

KingBuxton_Forever red 10th December 2018 14.29:43

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205268]Right for the job but walked as soon as the opportunity arose? Hmm, I get your point but I'm not so sure.
Not taking us up, in the context of who is the right choice is ultimately what we judge them on though isn't it?
[B]Morrell took us closest but some folk on here seem to hate the guy more than Mills. [/B]

But Macc had Askey, Lincoln had the Cowleys, Luton had Still. I'd say they were the correct choice.[/QUOTE]

Not a chance. Does anybody no here NOT hate Mills.

fezbob 10th December 2018 14.32:49

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
Who actually hates Morrell? I think most see him as a decent and honourable bloke, who took on a decent squad and came very close. That said, he had several shortcomings, particularly in the transfer market, and on that basis folk see little point in him returning.

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 14.34:20

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=KingBuxton_Forever red;2205308]Not a chance. Does anybody no here NOT hate Mills.[/QUOTE]

Dixienormous and pagl seem to hate him. Sorry lads.

Suggested last week that Morrell could step in and I thought I'd typed Mills by mistake judging from their reactions.

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 14.39:26

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2205309]Who actually hates Morrell? I think most see him as a decent and honourable bloke, who took on a decent squad and came very close. That said, he had several shortcomings, particularly in the transfer market, and on that basis folk see little point in him returning.[/QUOTE]

You'd be hard pushed to find managers this far down without shortcomings. Not convinced the transfer short comings were all down to Morrell either. Especially when you consider Horne was at the club then..

pagl 10th December 2018 14.45:20

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2205309]Who actually hates Morrell? I think most see him as a decent and honourable bloke, who took on a decent squad and came very close. That said, he had several shortcomings, particularly in the transfer market, and on that basis folk see little point in him returning.[/QUOTE]

Spot on. I have always acknowledged him steadying the ship and taking over a difficult role post Saunders. My complaint over AM was his complacency and his failure to recruit. Maybe outside interference was a factor but that's even worse as he should never have allowed it.

As a former player and manager he has respect but I would not want him back.

Red_not_Dead 10th December 2018 14.57:36

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=pagl;2205315]Spot on. I have always acknowledged him steadying the ship and taking over a difficult role post Saunders. My complaint over AM was his complacency and his failure to recruit. Maybe outside interference was a factor but that's even worse as he should never have allowed it.

As a former player and manager he has respect but I would not want him back.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, after all the money Saunders had spent difficult to say how much if anything was left for AM !! really top fella and never speaks badly of us..

Phils-an-alki 10th December 2018 15.09:20

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Red_not_Dead;2205316]Absolutely, after all the money Saunders had spent difficult to say how much if anything was left for AM !! really top fella and never speaks badly of us..[/QUOTE]

His budget was dramatically cut. So the reality was that most would have struggled to maintain that quality of squad. Plus there was players on good money there at the time.
Not sure why this is continually ignored and people still say "he struggled in the transfer market" as if he had a FGR budget. Doesn't take a Sherlock to work it out. You don't all believe he really wanted the likes of N'Tame, surely?

Anyway.

dixienormous 10th December 2018 15.09:43

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205311]Dixienormous and pagl seem to hate him. Sorry lads.

Suggested last week that Morrell could step in and I thought I'd typed Mills by mistake judging from their reactions.[/QUOTE]

Hate is a bit strong. As a manager I think he’s utterly useless, yes.

For the whole time he was manager I think Yourself, Alan and I argued over this, daily.

Tom wafc 10th December 2018 15.13:31

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=dixienormous;2205319]Hate is a bit strong. As a manager I think heís utterly useless, yes.[/QUOTE]

He got us in the play offs twice, i wouldn't call that useless. His recruitment of players is poor that's his problem.

dixienormous 10th December 2018 15.15:30

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=Tom wafc;2205320]He got us in the play offs twice, i wouldn't call that useless. His recruitment of players is poor that's his problem.[/QUOTE]

Well, thatís another argument isnít it. If he had to build his own team, god help us.

Tom wafc 10th December 2018 15.18:16

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=dixienormous;2205321]Well, thatís another argument isnít it. If he had to build his own team, god help us.[/QUOTE]

Not really, we seen last season what can happen if the job goes to the wrong person midway through a season.

krux 10th December 2018 16.52:51

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2205318]His budget was dramatically cut. So the reality was that most would have struggled to maintain that quality of squad. Plus there was players on good money there at the time.
Not sure why this is continually ignored and people still say "he struggled in the transfer market" as if he had a FGR budget. Doesn't take a Sherlock to work it out. You don't all believe he really wanted the likes of N'Tame, surely?

Anyway.[/QUOTE]

He has the reputation for being poor in the transfer market, because his replacement brought in moult and Jennings and Manny smith
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

pagl 10th December 2018 17.01:28

Re: Big Den rejects offer!
 
[QUOTE=krux;2205337]He has the reputation for being poor in the transfer market, because his replacement brought in moult and Jennings and Manny smith
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

I assume with the same budget :)


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