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Old 22nd April 2019, 07.08:44   #81-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

Quote:
Originally Posted by davewilli View Post
I think many have forgotten; the club in administration, massively in debt, haemeraging money hand over fist and losing its assets. The Trust may have taken a bit of time to pay off the debts, stabilise then turn things round financially but the last 2 seasons despite 2 managers upping sticks mid season progress has been made on the pitch.
From memory we paid off the debts in the first year from FAT and play off money. Even though we had a 5 year plan to do it. This was at the cost of investing in the team and the famous cutting of budget for AM.

No-one doubts the board manage the finances brilliantly, its decisions around on field it goes pear shaped. Always advocate credit where its due but there are selective memories in some cases.
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.19:40   #82-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by Alan Attack View Post
That's quite a remarkable comparison. WST could have bought Wrexham on the same basis multi billionaire family the Glazers bought Man Utd. Itís like saying any of us with a house worth 3-400k which is mostly paid off could also have bought Wrexham.

Anyway, what was the evidence that Moss was not trustworthy some 10 years ago?
How, they purchased through a series of loans and barely put a penny of their own money in. Indeed you could if you found people to back it, the Glazers haven't put a penny in, well North £1 billion taken out of the club. Still oddly you think the WST weren't capable of this, in order to recoup the money they could sell shares to the fans. This is what Dickens' consortium which included Moss were meant to do, Dickens stood down after around 18 months as promised, Moss didn't, those shares were never offered to the fans as promised, evidence enough that he wasn't trustworthy.
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.23:39   #83-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by pagl View Post
From memory we paid off the debts in the first year from FAT and play off money. Even though we had a 5 year plan to do it. This was at the cost of investing in the team and the famous cutting of budget for AM.

No-one doubts the board manage the finances brilliantly, its decisions around on field it goes pear shaped. Always advocate credit where its due but there are selective memories in some cases.
Thatís a fair enough comment and the most sense youíve written in months!!

With regards to our on-field fortunes, weíve not been helped with managers whoíve jumped ship. Maybe we could have paid them accordingly.

One of the head scratching occurrences this season (noted by pagl too) is the sheer volume of loan players. There must have been a strategic decision to get in as many as we can to bolster the squad. If weíve been paying all their wages over the term then it was a poor decision because only a few have been any real value to us.
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.24:34   #84-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Time does cloud the memory but I thought it was down to the administrator trying to get the best deal for the creditors.
Moss / Dickens were able with support to find a sum of around £2million. (Some borrowed from Steve Morgan) The WST couldn't match that and had proposed to use the money from the flats development to pay the debts.
The administrator wanted the best deal up front and the trust were left in no position to argue. They went along with the deal rather than backing it.
No, they backed it.

Delighted fans rose to their feet and clapped and cheered at the news.

Wrexham Supporters' Trust spokesman Simon Johnson said it was vital the club was sold to the right person.

"The Supporters' Trust is looking forward to working with Neville Dickens and Geoff Moss," he said. "They both have good links with the club and are doing this for the right reasons. Everybody else has been interested in the land, these people are interested in the club itself."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.d...ut-2897734.amp
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.30:22   #85-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo View Post
How, they purchased through a series of loans and barely put a penny of their own money in. Indeed you could if you found people to back it, the Glazers haven't put a penny in, well North £1 billion taken out of the club. Still oddly you think the WST weren't capable of this, in order to recoup the money they could sell shares to the fans. This is what Dickens' consortium which included Moss were meant to do, Dickens stood down after around 18 months as promised, Moss didn't, those shares were never offered to the fans as promised, evidence enough that he wasn't trustworthy.
The idea you can compare the Trust of 10 years ago with the Glazers is simply laughable. I have no doubt youíre correct that the Glazers barely put a penny of their own in to buy Utd however, they had avenues for such credit including other sports teams and businesses. What did the Trust have 10 years ago?

10 years ago, how could the Trust have raised the capital similar to that of the consortium?
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.42:19   #86-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by Alan Attack View Post
The idea you can compare the Trust of 10 years ago with the Glazers is simply laughable. I have no doubt youíre correct that the Glazers barely put a penny of their own in to buy Utd however, they had avenues for such credit including other sports teams and businesses. What did the Trust have 10 years ago?

10 years ago, how could the Trust have raised the capital similar to that of the consortium?
Manchester United are a separate entity to the other businesses, if they go under other businesses are fine. The Glazers shopping centres business went bang during the recession, didn't impact anything else.

Asking fans, those fans who raised the bond when the club faced exile, while they sat on their hands. Loans are also possible secured against assets too.

Another bit of our recent history that likes to be forgotten. RP treated with complete disdain by the WST is laughable if exiled we'd be lower than we are now or playing in the Welsh Premier League, no way it'd have survived and absolutely no way Moss would've sold up. He'd have got his money and then some through the assets.
Old 22nd April 2019, 07.56:46   #87-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

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Originally Posted by pagl View Post
From memory we paid off the debts in the first year from FAT and play off money. Even though we had a 5 year plan to do it. This was at the cost of investing in the team and the famous cutting of budget for AM.

No-one doubts the board manage the finances brilliantly, its decisions around on field it goes pear shaped. Always advocate credit where its due but there are selective memories in some cases.
This is my exact point PAGL I believe the inexperienced board panicked as none had ran a business and payed off all the debts with our money and made cut backs. We suffered massively when there would have been a plan outlined in the purchase of the club, I think thatís why don said we had a war chest then after that comment all debts were announced as paid.

Before anyone says you pay people you owe all we had to do was structure a payment plan, which would of been in place anyway and offset the debt invest the money from FAT in the team and the play off money as thatís exactly what Luton did. Get out of the league use the title winning to clear the remaining debt not set us on a 5 year journey of mid table finishes with bakare playing upfront whilst claiming to be a promotion chasing team.
Old 22nd April 2019, 08.02:10   #88-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Attack View Post
That's quite a remarkable comparison. WST could have bought Wrexham on the same basis multi billionaire family the Glazers bought Man Utd. Itís like saying any of us with a house worth 3-400k which is mostly paid off could also have bought Wrexham.

Anyway, what was the evidence that Moss was not trustworthy some 10 years ago?
I donít think moss knew what he was getting into, he probably loved the ego aspect brought a football club and rugby team together and didnít realise Lord sugar was right it destroys your bank balance he sold Spurs for 200million more than the purchase price and lost money! Regardless of what they did in terms of assets I guarantee he lost money over getting involved with us. Itís when they start loosing money usually they loan the club money, they would of had to put the money upfront to buy the club so they were down before anything else.
Old 22nd April 2019, 08.02:38   #89-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

Raising a bond is one thing. Raising actual capital is something entirely different. 99% of supporters are happy enough (or can only afford) to pay for admission and not tens of thousands owning a fraction of the club.

It wouldn’t have gone down well in my household if I’d said was going to get a loan for (say) £50k to help buy Wrexham. I might’ve been sitting pretty with the student flats but that’s not the point.
Old 22nd April 2019, 08.14:28   #90-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trust Board Vacancies

Pagl

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I've seen in the public domain and know of it.

The Trust (Club/us fans - all the samething) paid off the historic debts quicker than anticipated, but the club were still losing money in lots of areas and then were faced with another black hole of having to take back the Racecourse lease. This was at the same time trying to keep our first team budget competitive, which had already fallen behind others in our league. Again this debt and additional expenditure was not riginally budgetted for but we seem to have coped and the club has stayed debt free whilst increasing the first team budget. Yes we have had some windfalls in sell ons, despite as a NL team we are not in a position to keep the cream from the CoE and these sell ons are again in the main down to the club being run more professionally. We have a good tv fee for the Newport game but I'm not sure your profit margin on this season's fa cup is wholy accurate. Either way if we had not been fans owned and had a private owner, I doubt we would be debt free massively in his/her debt or their company.
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