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Old 9th June 2019, 19.13:02   #21-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by JonWrexhamfc View Post
Could think of nothing worse than Wrexham council owning a percentage of Wrexham football club.
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Old 9th June 2019, 19.15:00   #22-0 (permalink)
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It would yes. Clearly Barcelona are sort of fans owned, but with their numbers and a global profile (coupled with the fact that they are essentially a Catalan national side) they can be very prolific. Our fans support is enough to make us competitive at National League Level , hence every season we start off with a hope of the play offs. But at any level above this , our limited number of fans makes fans ownership increasingly likely to fail. Hence the point I have been making (accurately and with much personal abuse) for 6 years now....

Fans ownership under a good and lucky manager may get us up BUT IN THE LONG RUN FANS OWNERSHIP WILL FAIL.
A long rant THAT ENDS IN CAPITALS!

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Old 9th June 2019, 19.15:50   #23-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
Wycombe, AFC Wimbledon, Exeter and Newport seem to be doing OK. And Iíd argue we have bigger support and more potential than all of them...
All those clubs have reached their limits and I could give you scores of well run privately owned clubs that are doing much better.

The bottom line is that the proof is there - after many years of fans ownership we have never really looked like consistently progressing. You canít argue with that.
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Old 9th June 2019, 19.16:38   #24-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
Wycombe, AFC Wimbledon, Exeter and Newport seem to be doing OK. And I’d argue we have bigger support and more potential than all of them...
The main issue is we remain outside the league.
If we were in the league with its benefits then yes I agree we would have bigger potential than all of them.

Failure is measured by promotion, the vast majority of fans dont care if we make a £20k profit or loss. The priority is the team.
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Old 9th June 2019, 19.23:44   #25-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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A long rant THAT ENDS IN CAPITALS!

Wow. You have found a long rant that ends in capitals and you want to share your discovery with the whole world. Good to see you are excited Rob and enjoying my posts. Keep reading young man.
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Old 9th June 2019, 20.15:20   #26-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Foxy View Post
All those clubs have reached their limits and I could give you scores of well run privately owned clubs that are doing much better.

The bottom line is that the proof is there - after many years of fans ownership we have never really looked like consistently progressing. You canít argue with that.
Iíd argue that AFC Wimbledon and Wycombe are doing better than their level of support says they should. Perhaps because their are fan owned?
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Old 9th June 2019, 22.35:43   #27-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

The top ten fan owned clubs in English football - Part 2 - Back Page Football
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Old 10th June 2019, 02.21:05   #28-0 (permalink)
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Interesting read and shows that others are well ahead of us with share schemes and ownership certificates etc. Community share schemes, purchasing assets, strategic plans for their grounds.

What do we have? I mean really what do we own, where are we going, how are we going to grow? Does anyone really know?

I feel we tread water and thats it.

Maybe QR or BV (or anyone else) can provide a better view but we should build on the momentum of last season, 5,000 crowds, a settled squad, hopefully quality additions.

Were at ST renewal time, WST memberships, hopefully a resurgence in the Goldline lottery which will all provide the budget for next season.

However we really do need to grab the bull by the horns and take the lead when opportunities present themselves and not get led and shafted by other parties.
Mold road regeneration, whats in it for us as it appears nothing other than a chance for WCBC and/or WAG to own the land.
The museum?
Groves?

I dont have the answers but as usual some searching questions.

What would you pay to own something?
3,500 members at say £500 a share, reds groups, WSA, DSA and other groups also with a share right. Maybe 25% private (conservative yes).
Would it work? Does anyone know? Does anyone care?

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Old 10th June 2019, 08.53:44   #29-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by pagl View Post
Interesting read and shows that others are well ahead of us with share schemes and ownership certificates etc. Community share schemes, purchasing assets, strategic plans for their grounds.

What do we have? I mean really what do we own, where are we going, how are we going to grow? Does anyone really know?

I feel we tread water and thats it.

Maybe QR or BV (or anyone else) can provide a better view but we should build on the momentum of last season, 5,000 crowds, a settled squad, hopefully quality additions.

Were at ST renewal time, WST memberships, hopefully a resurgence in the Goldline lottery which will all provide the budget for next season.

However we really do need to grab the bull by the horns and take the lead when opportunities present themselves and not get led and shafted by other parties.
Mold road regeneration, whats in it for us as it appears nothing other than a chance for WCBC and/or WAG to own the land.
The museum?
Groves?

I dont have the answers but as usual some searching questions.

What would you pay to own something?
3,500 members at say £500 a share, reds groups, WSA, DSA and other groups also with a share right. Maybe 25% private (conservative yes).
Would it work? Does anyone know? Does anyone care?

Bloody steroids mess up your sleeping. Relax and breathe.
I've mentioned the Wimbledon model a few times over the years, for two reasons. The duality of their share ownership and ability to leverage it to build capital sums when needed (see the £1.2m) and the full time direction offered by the key board members.

I've always felt a dual approach with a separate share class allows freedom to capital raise for larger projects (such as training facilities) but it needs a more pragmatic approach than the political purity of the current system.

Worth noting that on the Bryn thread the discussions re the day the fans raised the bond money. On that day with an hour to go we were short, a fan from London who was on holiday at the time but had been discussing investing as part of a duality scheme via the Friends of Wrexham group and the former Chair of the Trust (who was very pragmatic and pro duality) stepped in to underwrite the difference to ensure we made it. A group of minority shareholders who can be dipped into to capital raise would allow much greater financial fire power.

However its politically less pure and for this reason I see it being a non runner for the foreseeable future despite the fact £500k was identified within a week last time around from just 4 people when we were examining whether the minority group could ensure the ground came as part of the sale. If it wasn't countenanced to keep the ground then I can't see any other scenario where it would be acceptable to the hierarchy.
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Old 10th June 2019, 09.24:22   #30-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
I've mentioned the Wimbledon model a few times over the years, for two reasons. The duality of their share ownership and ability to leverage it to build capital sums when needed (see the £1.2m) and the full time direction offered by the key board members.

I've always felt a dual approach with a separate share class allows freedom to capital raise for larger projects (such as training facilities) but it needs a more pragmatic approach than the political purity of the current system.

Worth noting that on the Bryn thread the discussions re the day the fans raised the bond money. On that day with an hour to go we were short, a fan from London who was on holiday at the time but had been discussing investing as part of a duality scheme via the Friends of Wrexham group and the former Chair of the Trust (who was very pragmatic and pro duality) stepped in to underwrite the difference to ensure we made it. A group of minority shareholders who can be dipped into to capital raise would allow much greater financial fire power.
However its politically less pure and for this reason I see it being a non runner for the foreseeable future despite the fact £500k was identified within a week last time around from just 4 people when we were examining whether the minority group could ensure the ground came as part of the sale. If it wasn't countenanced to keep the ground then I can't see any other scenario where it would be acceptable to the hierarchy.
I never knew that. Fair play.
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