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Old 11th June 2019, 08.59:23   #37-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Not true. Understand where you're coming from re. ownership but you need to accept that it's basically a co operative.
The trust own the only shares in the club. The trust is it's members. The board it's representatives.
Its a technicality. Its a membership system as I have to pay each year to retain the worthless share. So again I get a vote for my membership.

The rest is just irrelevant. Seems we are missing something here.
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Old 11th June 2019, 09.09:35   #38-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Not true. Understand where you're coming from re. ownership but you need to accept that it's basically a co operative.
The trust own the only shares in the club. The trust is it's members. The board it's representatives. The board don't own the club.
You have effectively, the same as every other member, one voting share as a co owner / member of the trust.
Financially your "share" is worthless, can't be traded, can be relinquished.

BV is right, a number of people were interested in investing, one in particular, if I remember rightly, in the COE.
The abuse that the Friends got was unbelievable, especially as we had informed the Trust chair at the time of our intentions to look for additional funding streams and received tentative approval.
It has to be remember that this was at a time when the trust were looking at purchasing the ground as well.
At the time I was critical of the boards approach as they would need to have raised around £4 million and this wasn't likely from the members at £12 a year. Ultimately, purchasing the club for £1 was the best / only option.
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However it’s all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldn’t do it again!
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Old 11th June 2019, 09.14:12   #39-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However it’s all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldn’t do it again!
Have to say thats sad. But understand.
Experience and knowledge such as yours could push us to the next level.

The current regime is likely to keep us where we are as the last years have shown.
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Old 11th June 2019, 10.38:11   #40-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However it’s all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldn’t do it again!
Whilst fully supporting trust ownership, I envisage a time in the not to distant future, irrespective of success or lack of on the field, that some form of duality, similar to that at other clubs will need to be looked at.
There is an obvious and not unreasonable fear of a repetition of the Hamilton and Moss eras but ownership of the club is with the trust.
We should now start looking long term in trying to purchase the ground or look to relocate, even if this was to be done over 10 or 20 years. This I feel is an area where controlled share issue could be beneficial.
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Old 11th June 2019, 10.48:17   #41-0 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Whilst fully supporting trust ownership, I envisage a time in the not to distant future, irrespective of success or lack of on the field, that some form of duality, similar to that at other clubs will need to be looked at.
There is an obvious and not unreasonable fear of a repetition of the Hamilton and Moss eras but ownership of the club is with the trust.
We should now start looking long term in trying to purchase the ground or look to relocate, even if this was to be done over 10 or 20 years. This I feel is an area where controlled share issue could be beneficial.
Own the ground? For most of our time as a club we have not owned it, as for relocating we would never have the money to do that we can barely afford to compete at this level with smaller clubs.

Relocation is a pipe dream the cost of land alone is astronomical, hell we can't even afford to flatten the Kop or purchase the land behind it.

To relocate we would need a sugar daddy like the valencia one who owns Salford.
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Old 11th June 2019, 10.52:25   #42-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

So to keep things simple...
Could we create a share issue to buy the ground?
Would this be shares in the company that are responsible for the rent and the events? If that makes sense.
I assume a sensible price would be £200 and 10,000 shares for the £2m needed.

Is this viable?

In terms of a relocation option then WCBC would have to provide land at a sensible price.

Last edited by pagl; 11th June 2019 at 10.54:31..
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Old 11th June 2019, 11.14:38   #43-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by pagl View Post
So to keep things simple...
Could we create a share issue to buy the ground?
Would this be shares in the company that are responsible for the rent and the events? If that makes sense.
I assume a sensible price would be £200 and 10,000 shares for the £2m needed.

Is this viable?

In terms of a relocation option then WCBC would have to provide land at a sensible price.
Create a dual share class.

Class A - 51% or more owned by the Trust, one member one vote
Class B - 49% or less owned conventionally by shareholders on one share one vote basis with a nominated non Exec or two.

It needs a dilution of the purity of the politics - a trade off for pragmatism but allows for 2 sets of capital fundraising.

Having two classes also means the Trust could invest their further capital either increasing the class A percentage or forcing a class B share issue to maintain percentage parity.

A real push on something like this could raise substantial funds for asset restructuring or investment. It also creates really healthy duality, the Trust couldn't be seen to be hiding anything as they would be subjected to oversight.

Will the supporters of the political purity of 100% fans ownership go for it - history tells me hell will freeze over 1st.
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Old 11th June 2019, 11.18:59   #44-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by pagl View Post
Have to say thats sad. But understand.
Experience and knowledge such as yours could push us to the next level.

The current regime is likely to keep us where we are as the last years have shown.
We tried to buy the freehold of the ground from Glyndwr prior to purchasing the 99 year lease in 2016. Glyndwr were apparently not willing to sell it to us.
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Old 11th June 2019, 11.45:33   #45-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
We tried to buy the freehold of the ground from Glyndwr prior to purchasing the 99 year lease in 2016. Glyndwr were apparently not willing to sell it to us.
However WCBC are courting them at the moment alongside the MR regen.
The ground isnt really benefitting them is it?
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