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pagl 14th June 2019 09.58:26

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2266972]And there are those who need to move on from their the board is to blame for every ill in January stance too.

Without both sides doing that - it'll just remain fractured.[/QUOTE]

Yes its the key point.
WST people cant move on from Moss so its hardly surprising the level of frustration that still sits from as recently as Jan.

They key point IMO being we didnt deal with the extra quality issue and simply made the same quantity mistake. Thats not even throwing in the manager issue.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 09.59:31

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LWR;2266976]It's either black or white.

No shades of grey.[/QUOTE]

That seems to be society at the moment but it's not helpful - especially when we're all working towards the same goal.

Foxy 14th June 2019 10.02:25

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2266979]That seems to be society at the moment but it's not helpful - especially when we're all working towards the same goal.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that we are not working towards the same goal. Some of us want the best for WFC, but for others the priority is either an ideology or their own power and status.

John Neals Dynasty 14th June 2019 10.16:07

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2266972]And there are those who need to move on from their the board is to blame for every ill in January stance too.

Without both sides doing that - it'll just remain fractured.[/QUOTE]


Theirs a simple answer to all that the board publicly apologise to the fans show some humility instead of blaming the fans who voiced disapproval of mistakes made not once but 2 yrs running.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Bagger Vance 14th June 2019 10.33:14

Re: Trust board snippets
 
Here is the problem, you can't morally justifiably argue to the fan base that abuse is wrong to board members when board members have been onto forums in the past slating various fans. Also Mark Creighton got pelters on social media a while back, as has Dean Saunders, I don't recall anyone at the time putting out a message saying this was wrong. You can't sit on the moral high ground complaining only when it suits. Its either right or wrong, it can't be wrong only when it suits.

Haruki 14th June 2019 10.37:00

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=wafc1926;2266928]I assume you are referring to the nasty, bitter comments about Steve Cooper. Ex -Reds coach who always speaks well about his time at Wrexham and who has done very well for himself. Disappointing response from JCP.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this, he could have been a great friend to us in offering loan players etc. But according to the Trust chairman's views he is unlikely to now deal with us as he received nasty comments on the Internet from fans

Hightown Brymbo Red 14th June 2019 10.37:09

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2266953]Log onto twitter and see replies/mentions of Spencer Harris... there's plenty to see. I'm all for criticism where its warranted but a lot of it steps well over the line.

Some of the stuff that's written to players is also mental.[/QUOTE]

I dont do twitter.. surely anyone who is abusive can be blocked and if they have been abusive they should be named and shamed.
Of course Spencer could always come off twitter?

dixienormous 14th June 2019 10.42:31

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=wafc1926;2266928]I assume you are referring to the nasty, bitter comments about Steve Cooper. Ex -Reds coach who always speaks well about his time at Wrexham and who has done very well for himself. Disappointing response from JCP.[/QUOTE]

Any links? They're a bunch of total numpties at the best of times

pagl 14th June 2019 10.46:06

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2266992]Agree with this, he could have been a great friend to us in offering loan players etc. But according to the Trust chairman's views he is unlikely to now deal with us as he received nasty comments on the Internet from fans[/QUOTE]

Does anyone know what JCP or these nasty comments are?
I am sure bridges can be built. Football people are a hardy lot, they do understand there are plenty of idiots out there and I would be extremely surprised if it allowed it to affect professional decisions.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 10.48:16

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Foxy;2266980]The problem is that we are not working towards the same goal. Some of us want the best for WFC, but for others the priority is either an ideology or their own power and status.[/QUOTE]

Here we go again... everyone wants the best for WFC. You just differ with others on how to achieve it.

Haruki 14th June 2019 10.48:45

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2266965]Yep it's mind boggling but I think they believe they didn't get anything wrong in January. I appreciate some on here think they are to be blamed for everything but its not as clear cut as that. If Pete Jones' version of events is to be believed (and I have no evidence to the contrary) they didn't force Barrow into changing his mind.

What's more galling is them holding information to release it at the time which benefits them the most and the spin that comes with it - ie why would you hold a meet the manager with Barrow when he was going.

There are ways of dealing with this as is rightly said and why we are able to vote people onto the trust board and bring in resolutions of our own. I'm amazed, considering the strength of feeling on here, that someone hasn't put forward a motion of no confidence in the football club board. Much easier to bleat on here though.[/QUOTE]

Even following Pete's version of events. Barrow was still a very poor decision. - He has a questionable managerial record
- He hadn't managed for over 10 years
- He had very recently intimated he didn't want the job. Despite changing his mind that should have rung alarm bells
- At the risk of being seen as "ageist" his age would have been an issue for me, an elder statesman doing what is a younger mans job
- He was currently our number 2, very rarely does the step up to the top job work as it is a different relationship with the players that cannot be switched on and off over night. Worrying Pete quotes the "continuity" argument which is the exact same wording used with the failed appointment of Davies just 6 months earlier. It seems the board learnt nothing

It is apparent that the board went after Big Den and he pulled out. At that point they panicked and appointed Barrow as the "easiest" option rather than keeping him in caretaker control and finding the right man. That decision was catastrophic in meaning we hired and fired Mike Newell and ended up with a man who didn't want to be here spending a £200k budget in a crucial transfer window. Pete can cloud this with "abuse of volunteers" all he likes but it was a disaster series of decision making from those in charge and we are yet to see any evidence that they acknowledge those mistakes and will learn from them going forwards.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 10.49:16

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2266982]Theirs a simple answer to all that the board publicly apologise to the fans show some humility instead of blaming the fans who voiced disapproval of mistakes made not once but 2 yrs running.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Can I have an apology from Moss so I can move on too?

Wrexham's Patrick Bateman 14th June 2019 10.54:28

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2266921]Still no hint of any humility or an apology from the board then. Arrogant beyond belief.

This is yet another PR disaster, when you turn on your own fans its the beginning of the end and smacks of being totally out of touch.
Its what happened with Moss and there's no way back.[/QUOTE]

There's one way back....Promotion.... And it needs to happen pretty soon..... The peasants are getting seriously fed up of this League..

cardiffred 14th June 2019 10.55:47

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2266999]Even following Pete's version of events. Barrow was still a very poor decision. - He has a questionable managerial record
- He hadn't managed for over 10 years
- He had very recently intimated he didn't want the job. Despite changing his mind that should have rung alarm bells
- At the risk of being seen as "ageist" his age would have been an issue for me, an elder statesman doing what is a younger mans job
- He was currently our number 2, very rarely does the step up to the top job work as it is a different relationship with the players that cannot be switched on and off over night. Worrying Pete quotes the "continuity" argument which is the exact same wording used with the failed appointment of Davies just 6 months earlier. It seems the board learnt nothing

It is apparent that the board went after Big Den and he pulled out. At that point they panicked and appointed Barrow as the "easiest" option rather than keeping him in caretaker control and finding the right man. That decision was catastrophic in meaning we hired and fired Mike Newell and ended up with a man who didn't want to be here spending a £200k budget in a crucial transfer window. Pete can cloud this with "abuse of volunteers" all he likes but it was a disaster series of decision making from those in charge and we are yet to see any evidence that they acknowledge those mistakes and will learn from them going forwards.[/QUOTE]

Agree with most of what you've written. Barrow was a terrible appointment. I said it at the time. Mistakes have been made and people should be accountable. Because we own the club, there are ways we can hold people accountable other than hiding behind this board with fake names. As I said elsewhere, i'm amazed, considering the strength of feeling of some on here, that there was no motion re. lack of faith in the football club board.

It's conjecture to say they panicked and appointed Barrow. They may have felt he was the best man for the job. If they did, then, as you've rightly said, we need to question what they've learned from the Andy Davies decision. Which frankly is what worries me most.

That said, regardless of poor decisions, personal abuse is not acceptable. Surely?!

Phils-an-alki 14th June 2019 10.55:53

Re: Trust board snippets
 
If the same mistakes are repeated for a third season in a row will they yet again be swept under the carpet and will we all be told to move on again by the same people saying that now?
Besides the board clearly haven't moved on from January or from the Hamilton & Moss era's. Maybe when they do everyone else will follow...

Funny_Old_Game 14th June 2019 10.59:04

Re: Trust board snippets
 
Haruki is easily the best poster on this messageboard.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 10.59:15

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2267004]If the same mistakes are repeated for a third season in a row will they yet again be swept under the carpet and will we all be told to move on again by the same people saying that now?
Besides the board clearly haven't moved on from January or from the Hamilton & Moss era's. Maybe when they do everyone else will follow...[/QUOTE]

We can keep blaming other people but we're allowing them to sweep things under the carpet.

Phils-an-alki 14th June 2019 11.04:10

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267008]We can keep blaming other people but we're allowing them to sweep things under the carpet.[/QUOTE]

I still don't see how we can change that. We can't vote for who we want on the club board for starters.

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.04:34

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267003]Agree with most of what you've written. Barrow was a terrible appointment. I said it at the time. Mistakes have been made and people should be accountable. [B]Because we own the club, there are ways we can hold people accountable other than hiding behind this board with fake names.[/B] As I said elsewhere, i'm amazed, considering the strength of feeling of some on here, that there was no motion re. lack of faith in the football club board.

It's conjecture to say they panicked and appointed Barrow. They may have felt he was the best man for the job. If they did, then, as you've rightly said, we need to question what they've learned from the Andy Davies decision. Which frankly is what worries me most.

That said, regardless of poor decisions, personal abuse is not acceptable. Surely?![/QUOTE]

Are there?

Considering the way things are structured I'd say it's extremely difficult to hold anyone to account. We may be a fan owned club in name, but we have as much chance of holding anyone in power to as we did when we were privately owned. It could be argued we have less as there are no longer any smaller shareholders.

Not that the club/WST board see anything wrong that would require this though.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 11.10:03

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2267010]Are there?

Considering the way things are structured I'd say it's extremely difficult to hold anyone to account. We may be a fan owned club in name, but we have as much chance of holding anyone in power to as we did when we were privately owned. It could be argued we have less as there are no longer any smaller shareholders.

Not that the club/WST board see anything wrong that would require this though.[/QUOTE]

Getting people on the WST board who agree with you is a start... how many people actually vote?

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.15:04

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267014]Getting people on the WST board who agree with you is a start... how many people actually vote?[/QUOTE]

Not many.

It would be interesting if the proposal to allow campaigning on social media was passed, as this has the potential to massively change the make-up of the WST board and by extension the club board.

It won't be passed though, as the WST board oppose it. Being cynical it doesn't take a genius to work out why.

Haruki 14th June 2019 11.20:10

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2267016]Not many.

It would be interesting if the proposal to allow campaigning on social media was passed, as this has the potential to massively change the make-up of the WST board and by extension the club board.

It won't be passed though, as the WST board oppose it. Being cynical it doesn't take a genius to work out why.[/QUOTE]

I actually voted against that one as i agree with the Trust board that we don't want a popularity contest, we want the best candidates.
The problem with the resolution process is you get black or white, you support the proposal in its entirety or stick to the status quo. There were 2 resolutions this time that brought that issue to me. With the campaigning one, I agree that there needs to be more information on candidates, what they stand for and what they want to achieve on the Trust board but i would want that in an official capacity giving equal air time to all not on a popularity social media campaigning so I had to oppose the resolution where as i don't actually oppose the thought process behind it.
Also with Bryn Law's amendment to the Gateway. I think £50k is too high and £2k is too low but they were the only two options to vote for

Quay Red 14th June 2019 11.24:05

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2267016]Not many.

It would be interesting if the proposal to allow campaigning on social media was passed, as this has the potential to massively change the make-up of the WST board and by extension the club board.

It won't be passed though, as the WST board oppose it. Being cynical it doesn't take a genius to work out why.[/QUOTE]

It's all very well being cynical and you may have a valid point but if the board is made up of the most popular facebook users, I dread to think of the mess the club would be in within 6 months.
Seems to me that the more responsible people leave facebook and twitter etc alone.
I believe that the only way is to organise hustings. Each candidate is given 5 minutes to outline his / her vision and attributes and can then be questioned.
Never easy to get 6 or 7 people in the room at the same time / date but got to be worth a try.

fezbob 14th June 2019 11.24:15

Re: Trust board snippets
 
It's been pointed out to me that Pete's comment about Barrow letting the board know at the end of January could be seen as misleading.

I've been told it's a fact that he informed them on 12th January before the Meet the Manager event was held on the 16th.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 11.31:22

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2267016]Not many.

It would be interesting if the proposal to allow campaigning on social media was passed, as this has the potential to massively change the make-up of the WST board and by extension the club board.

It won't be passed though, as the WST board oppose it. Being cynical it doesn't take a genius to work out why.[/QUOTE]

Right... so say if 150 vote? If people are as disenfranchised as people on here say then it doesn't require a lot of effort to get a candidate on the board. With a little bit of organisation, that could be achieved.

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.31:49

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2267018]I actually voted against that one as i agree with the Trust board that we don't want a popularity contest, we want the best candidates.
The problem with the resolution process is you get black or white, you support the proposal in its entirety or stick to the status quo. There were 2 resolutions this time that brought that issue to me. With the campaigning one, I agree that there needs to be more information on candidates, what they stand for and what they want to achieve on the Trust board but i would want that in an official capacity giving equal air time to all not on a popularity social media campaigning so I had to oppose the resolution where as i don't actually oppose the thought process behind it.
Also with Bryn Law's amendment to the Gateway. I think £50k is too high and £2k is too low but they were the only two options to vote for[/QUOTE]

I agree it isn't a pupularity contest; however having the ability to engage with fans before election has the potential to change the make-up of both boards. It could also mean sitting board members seriously thinking into how they may need to change in order stay, if they wish to. These banal statements which get put out are just that.

It's difficult. Any member voted onto the board could be inappropriate, but they're not a single voice.

Haruki 14th June 2019 11.32:02

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Quay Red;2267021]It's all very well being cynical and you may have a valid point but if the board is made up of the most popular facebook users, I dread to think of the mess the club would be in within 6 months.
Seems to me that the more responsible people leave facebook and twitter etc alone.
I believe that the only way is to organise hustings. Each candidate is given 5 minutes to outline his / her vision and attributes and can then be questioned.
Never easy to get 6 or 7 people in the room at the same time / date but got to be worth a try.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't have to be hustings. As well as a personal statement there could be some set meaningful questions for each candidate to answer on the application form. This way they can still write all their "I've been a fan for x years" rubbish on the statement but the questions give us comparative information on each candidate. Another way is for members to submit questions they want to ask candidates to the election committee and answers (to sensible non abusive questions) are answered then circulated to all members.
Of course we could benefit from technology and do hustings on line?

Haruki 14th June 2019 11.33:07

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2267022]It's been pointed out to me that Pete's comment about Barrow letting the board know at the end of January could be seen as misleading.

I've been told it's a fact that he informed them on 12th January before the Meet the Manager event was held on the 16th.[/QUOTE]

His comments are not misleading they are incorrect. Barrow informed the board before the meet the manager event which as you say was held on the 16th January.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 11.33:14

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2267025]It doesn't have to be hustings. As well as a personal statement there could be some set meaningful questions for each candidate to answer on the application form. This way they can still write all their "I've been a fan for x years" rubbish on the statement but the questions give us comparative information on each candidate. Another way is for members to submit questions they want to ask candidates to the election committee and answers (to sensible non abusive questions) are answered then circulated to all members.
Of course we could benefit from technology and do hustings on line?[/QUOTE]

Great ideas. Especially if we get the questions right.

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.35:18

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267023]Right... so say if 150 vote? If people are as disenfranchised as people on here say then it doesn't require a lot of effort to get a candidate on the board. With a little bit of organisation, that could be achieved.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the issues.

Voting needs to be increased to increase diversity. If only a small proportion vote, and always vote the same way, the status quo is maintained.

cardiffred 14th June 2019 11.36:17

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2267032]That's one of the issues.

Voting needs to be increased to increase diversity. If only a small proportion vote, and always vote the same way, the status quo is maintained.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. But in the short term - that can help get someone different in as it doesn't require a lot of votes.

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.36:29

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2267025]It doesn't have to be hustings. As well as a personal statement there could be some set meaningful questions for each candidate to answer on the application form. This way they can still write all their "I've been a fan for x years" rubbish on the statement but the questions give us comparative information on each candidate. Another way is for members to submit questions they want to ask candidates to the election committee and answers (to sensible non abusive questions) are answered then circulated to all members.
Of course we could benefit from technology and do hustings on line?[/QUOTE]

Good ideas there.

John Neals Dynasty 14th June 2019 11.36:35

[QUOTE=Haruki;2266999]Even following Pete's version of events. Barrow was still a very poor decision. - He has a questionable managerial record
- He hadn't managed for over 10 years
- He had very recently intimated he didn't want the job. Despite changing his mind that should have rung alarm bells
- At the risk of being seen as "ageist" his age would have been an issue for me, an elder statesman doing what is a younger mans job
- He was currently our number 2, very rarely does the step up to the top job work as it is a different relationship with the players that cannot be switched on and off over night. Worrying Pete quotes the "continuity" argument which is the exact same wording used with the failed appointment of Davies just 6 months earlier. It seems the board learnt nothing

It is apparent that the board went after Big Den and he pulled out. At that point they panicked and appointed Barrow as the "easiest" option rather than keeping him in caretaker control and finding the right man. That decision was catastrophic in meaning we hired and fired Mike Newell and ended up with a man who didn't want to be here spending a £200k budget in a crucial transfer window. Pete can cloud this with "abuse of volunteers" all he likes but it was a disaster series of decision making from those in charge and we are yet to see any evidence that they acknowledge those mistakes and will learn from them going forwards.[/QUOTE]


Excellent post
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

John Neals Dynasty 14th June 2019 11.38:04

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2267021]It's all very well being cynical and you may have a valid point but if the board is made up of the most popular facebook users, I dread to think of the mess the club would be in within 6 months.
Seems to me that the more responsible people leave facebook and twitter etc alone.
I believe that the only way is to organise hustings. Each candidate is given 5 minutes to outline his / her vision and attributes and can then be questioned.
Never easy to get 6 or 7 people in the room at the same time / date but got to be worth a try.[/QUOTE]


Must be responsible then I don't do Facebook or Twitter 😀
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

LlayDragon 14th June 2019 11.41:14

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267034]Agreed. But in the short term - that can help get someone different in as it doesn't require a lot of votes.[/QUOTE]

Only if you can get a block to vote the same way.

Having blocks voting one way or the other isn't great, extremes aren't great. If greater voting can be achieved, based on better data from candidates, then hopefully good change can happen.

John Neals Dynasty 14th June 2019 11.41:45

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267000]Can I have an apology from Moss so I can move on too?[/QUOTE]


Give him a twitter message and don't be abusive.... See you are one who can't move forwards from years ago. But regarding 2 yrs on the trot by those in charge still their is no excuse.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Phils-an-alki 14th June 2019 11.42:34

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2267022]It's been pointed out to me that Pete's comment about Barrow letting the board know at the end of January could be seen as misleading.

I've been told it's a fact that he informed them on 12th January before the Meet the Manager event was held on the 16th.[/QUOTE]

So he is basically lying.

Quay Red 14th June 2019 11.43:49

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267038]Must be responsible then I don't do Facebook or Twitter 😀
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

There's always the exception to the rule:);)

Phils-an-alki 14th June 2019 11.59:45

Re: Trust board snippets
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267000]Can I have an apology from Moss so I can move on too?[/QUOTE]

Moss has nothing to do with the club anymore though

NedStarksGhost 14th June 2019 12.05:24

Re: Trust board snippets
 
Abuse is wrong, as has been said by many people on here. But using that to hide behind the fair criticism that both boards received is quite poor. Every club, in fact I would say every organisation that has a fairly high profile in the public will have nasty people giving abuse over social media (this is an issue that is not exclusive to Wrexham AFC). It's an unfortunate side of social media that can't be avoided.

The appointment of Barrow was a terrible decision and one they should own up to. Just because Barrow wanted the job, doesn't mean he should have got it. Try and twist it as Barrow changing his mind all you want, the club still hired him as first team manager. And as already mentioned, holding a meet the manager event was laughable.

The PR from the club is quite poor. The general tone of these statements give me the impression there is no culpability. To even accuse fans of putting players off joining is absolutely crazy to publicly state.

As a fan owned club, attacking your fan base like this is a seriously bad move and only serves to create a divide.


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