[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2267057]Abuse is wrong, as has been said by many people on here. But using that to hide behind the fair criticism that both boards received is quite poor. Every club, in fact I would say every organisation that has a fairly high profile in the public will have nasty people giving abuse over social media (this is an issue that is not exclusive to Wrexham AFC). It's an unfortunate side of social media that can't be avoided.

The appointment of Barrow was a terrible decision and one they should own up to. Just because Barrow wanted the job, doesn't mean he should have got it. Try and twist it as Barrow changing his mind all you want, the club still hired him as first team manager. And as already mentioned, holding a meet the manager event was laughable.

The PR from the club is quite poor. The general tone of these statements give me the impression there is no culpability. To even accuse fans of putting players off joining is absolutely crazy to publicly state.

As a fan owned club, attacking your fan base like this is a seriously bad move and only serves to create a divide.[/QUOTE]

I think the board get unfair stick a lot of the time but have to say you’re right here, the statement included in the accounts strikes completely the wrong tone and I’m very disappointed people have seen fit to issue it.
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Aside from my business, I serve on boards in a voluntary capacity - invariably they are fixed term appointments, but appointments that require the board member to stand down - e.g. serve two three-year terms then step aside for a period of 12 or 24 months.

This ensures a controlled turnover on the board that brings in new personalities, perspectives and opinions but also focuses the minds of board members to deliver within their tenure. It also avoids anyone considering a place on the board as a right.

Continuity is maintained as the step-downs are staggered.

It strikes me this may assist in addressing some fans' concerns about the stagnation that appears to them to be an issue at WST and WAFC board level.

[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2267057]Abuse is wrong, as has been said by many people on here. But using that to hide behind the fair criticism that both boards received is quite poor. Every club, in fact I would say every organisation that has a fairly high profile in the public will have nasty people giving abuse over social media (this is an issue that is not exclusive to Wrexham AFC). It's an unfortunate side of social media that can't be avoided.

The appointment of Barrow was a terrible decision and one they should own up to. Just because Barrow wanted the job, doesn't mean he should have got it. Try and twist it as Barrow changing his mind all you want, the club still hired him as first team manager. And as already mentioned, holding a meet the manager event was laughable.

The PR from the club is quite poor. The general tone of these statements give me the impression there is no culpability. To even accuse fans of putting players off joining is absolutely crazy to publicly state.

As a fan owned club, attacking your fan base like this is a seriously bad move and only serves to create a divide.[/QUOTE]

This. This. Thisity. This.
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Shows how isolated they are. All sat there slapping each other on the back not accepting that they've done nothing wrong

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[QUOTE=138+NotOut;2267085]Shows how isolated they are. All sat there slapping each other on the back not accepting that they've done nothing wrong[/QUOTE]

Its only an opinion but based on knowing a little of some of their ways of working and also trying to apply some logic to the situation.
I think there are a couple of embarrassing decisions for the truth/apology to come out.

What possible reasons could you have for rolling out the manager knowing he wanted out of the position? They must have thought they could mitigate it later - how though. My opinion is they thought they could get DL who Barrow had said he was happy to work with and then move back to assistant later. Theory yes but I am trying to give board some credit here and not criticising just for the sake of it.

They then interviewed 3 for the job. This was kept quiet because of Wrexleaks - understandable to a point but showed a discord.

Allowing Barrow to recruit and recruit poorly was a mistake, allowing him to drop Tollitt during ill fated January was a mistake. We basically allowed the cash windfall we had to be very poorly used.
Add on top the embarrassment of a £50k bid for Rowe and it doesnt take much to work out the football decisions were poor.

It is time however to move on (yes its another from me on the subject) as there is nothing further to see here :)

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If you volunteer to work for a business on the board or as a director and you don’t perform or make questionable (and that being polite) decisions on behalf of thousands of fans you will be in the firing line, as the buck stops with you. Just because you are in such a high profile and important post, that does NOT give you the right to be beyond accountability. I’m sick to death of hearing that they work for nothing etc etc. They have made some terrible decisions and haven’t, even now, apologised for such a mess as January was. It absolutely shouldn’t be personal, but your name CAN be called out regarding the role you fulfill ON BEHALF on tens of thousands of Wrexham Fans.

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[quote=crumbs;2266917]do they not think the relentless run of less than talented even talentless players they continue to employ at the club adds to the criticism every season , not to mention 12 years in this league .[/quote]

:7::7:

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[QUOTE=Foxy;2266892]Saint Pete in full on rant mode again. This is going to be the next spin angle from the clique, that players won’t sign for us because of Red Passion. I have heard the same rubbish first hand from the Chairman of the Shropshire Reds.

However he is right in that the personal abuse is bad and unacceptable. Sadly though he should know the fate of Moss and others- ie if you hold back the club from progress and tell lies whilst you do it, the lunatic fringe will not restrain themselves.[/QUOTE]

What's this got to do with Derby's hooligan element? ? They've got their own problems if Lamps goes to Chelsea

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[QUOTE=cardiffred;2267028]Great ideas. Especially if we get the questions right.[/QUOTE]

Its relatively simple - treat this as a job application, set out as little as 2 set questions or even ask them to set out what are you going to bring to the board in the short term and the long term with Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and Time-bound objectives - this shouldn't be difficult to pitch...

You'd think with Spencer Harris being a HR expert these things would've been implemented

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Once it was money and now someone on social media saying a players 'sh*t' preventing us from signing on paper the higher calibre players. Who knew.

They've caused much of the mess themselves in further and further isolating themselves, while also not getting to grips on the leaks. All those involved know whom they are. Banning those asking questions whith not a hint of abuse hasn't helped either, what exactly did they think would happen?

Best they try and meet fans halfway otherwise it's going to get far worse, the majority wont retort to abuse if that's done. Plenty have had enough and this is their 'passion' boiling over, the sort that was all okay and wonderful when it happened at the Deva.

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[QUOTE=fezbob;2266874]Not sure if it's worthy of a few separate threads, but there's some interesting snippets in the latest board docs posted on the WST site:

[B]'Last summer we had another successful concert with a full house for the Stereophonics, disappointingly we were not selected to host a concert for this summer despite the hard work put into trying to make this happen.'[/B]

'Negativity across social media is being noticed by the players. The board agreed on the need for comms support.'

'Manny Smith improving but no timescale on return yet'

'Discussions with FAW on Colliers Park continue'
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I thought the reason we were not having a concert this season, was due to work being done on the pitch.

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[QUOTE=dagg;2267163]I thought the reason we were not having a concert this season, was due to work being done on the pitch.[/QUOTE]

Work was done on the pitch after the concert last season.

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Why am I not surprised?
Straight away the board explains something and the usual suspects are out in force. Not only are their comments predictable but extremely tedious .
Best thing they can all do is stand for the board and see if they are prepared to give the commitment and time that board members do . Constructive criticism is fine but we keep reading the same comments over and over here . No doubt it's good therapy but let's all move on please!

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[QUOTE=griff49;2267169]Why am I not surprised?
Straight away the board explains something and the usual suspects are out in force. Not only are their comments predictable but extremely tedious .
Best thing they can all do is stand for the board and see if they are prepared to give the commitment and time that board members do . Constructive criticism is fine but we keep reading the same comments over and over here . No doubt it's good therapy but let's all move on please![/QUOTE]
Board members are unelected so you cant stand for it!

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Spot on 'Haruki'. Best post yet.

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[QUOTE=pagl;2267118]Its only an opinion but based on knowing a little of some of their ways of working and also trying to apply some logic to the situation.
I think there are a couple of embarrassing decisions for the truth/apology to come out.

What possible reasons could you have for rolling out the manager knowing he wanted out of the position? They must have thought they could mitigate it later - how though. My opinion is they thought they could get DL who Barrow had said he was happy to work with and then move back to assistant later. Theory yes but I am trying to give board some credit here and not criticising just for the sake of it.

They then interviewed 3 for the job. This was kept quiet because of Wrexleaks - understandable to a point but showed a discord.

Allowing Barrow to recruit and recruit poorly was a mistake, allowing him to drop Tollitt during ill fated January was a mistake. We basically allowed the cash windfall we had to be very poorly used.
Add on top the embarrassment of a £50k bid for Rowe and it doesnt take much to work out the football decisions were poor.

It is time however to move on (yes its another from me on the subject) as there is nothing further to see here :)[/QUOTE]

Other than being oft repeated on Red Passion to denegrate the board does any one have any evidence to confirm a bid for Rowe was ever made? Love to see the proof.

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[QUOTE=Hightown Brymbo Red;2267171]Board members are unelected so you cant stand for it![/QUOTE]

We’re talking about the trust board here which is elected. There’s an election on right now, in fact...

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It only needs a few people to put in a Vote of no confidence with the WST for the next meeting and things could mushroom.

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This is the democratic way and not hurling abuse or taking issues with family members.

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Peter does realise every other club our size generally has a message board and generally there is criticism of their own players on there?

We don’t get the players because we don’t pay the cash....

Simple.

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[QUOTE=griff49;2267169]Why am I not surprised?
Straight away the board explains something and the usual suspects are out in force. Not only are their comments predictable but extremely tedious .
Best thing they can all do is stand for the board and see if they are prepared to give the commitment and time that board members do . Constructive criticism is fine but we keep reading the same comments over and over here . No doubt it's good therapy but let's all move on please![/QUOTE]

What exactly do you disagree with? I think the majority of the responses to this have been well reasoned and people have made valid points.

[QUOTE=Percy Sugden;2267187]Peter does realise every other club our size generally has a message board and generally there is criticism of their own players on there?

We don’t get the players because we don’t pay the cash....

Simple.[/QUOTE]


Also another side to that if the Peter thinks criticism on a social media forum gets around puts players off signing, clubs willing to pay the going rate gets around as well, not that I'm saying we don't pay it but players get to know who pays the most through agents, the same when appointing managers as in Fyldes manager allegedly being one of the 3.
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[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267200]Also another side to that if the Peter thinks criticism on a social media forum gets around puts players off signing, clubs willing to pay the going rate gets around as well, not that I'm saying we don't pay it but players get to know who pays the most through agents, the same when appointing managers as in Fyldes manager allegedly being one of the 3.
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No you have got it all wrong. Regardless of the money, players are desperate to sign for fans owned teams with a chairman who thinks he is Michael Parkinson.

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Speaking from a personal point of view, I am at the stage where I have zero enthusiasm for the forthcoming season. We do not have enough money to compete with the best teams in the division and the chances of us getting promoted under the ownership of the football club board are extremely limited because they apparently do not think the club needs any investment. Things will not change while these people own the club and make the key decisions.

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[QUOTE=Liverpool Red;2267210]Speaking from a personal point of view, I am at the stage where I have zero enthusiasm for the forthcoming season. We do not have enough money to compete with the best teams in the division and the chances of us getting promoted under the ownership of the football club board are extremely limited because they apparently do not think the club needs any investment. Things will not change while these people own the club and make the key decisions.[/QUOTE]

Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.

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[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2267216]Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.[/QUOTE]

Oh dear, what an own goal , but entirely expected off you.

[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2267216]Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.[/QUOTE]


You and your mates do a cracking job of turning fans away well done the Oracle. You should put your name forward for WST membership recruitment.
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[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2267216]Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.[/QUOTE]

That’s why I am struggling to be enthusiastic, Alan.

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[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267219]You and your mates do a cracking job of turning fans away well done the Oracle. You should put your name forward for WST membership recruitment.
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Where are the fans being turned away from? We’ve established the fans aren’t being turned away from the racecourse.

I’m not the Trust and it’s certainly not my job to recruit. I’d like to think the supporters would want to be members of the group that runs the club. If not, so be it. I don’t wish to be flippant about it. Well, maybe I do.

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[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267219]You and your mates do a cracking job of turning fans away well done the Oracle. You should put your name forward for WST membership recruitment.
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What have you done to persuade all your mates who no longer go to start watching wrexham again??

[QUOTE=andy buckley;2267231]What have you done to persuade all your mates who no longer go to start watching wrexham again??[/QUOTE]


Believe me I've tried their is 9 of them 5 have not been since the end on the previous fiasco season, the other 4 since we became fan owned.... The 5 after Keates season use the many years old saying we don't want to or can't afford to go up reason, these are fans going back as far as the 60/70s so not kids to convince, like anything once you stop doing it, then its hard to start again. But my point to the Oracle was his attitude To a frustrated fan in Liverpool Red.
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[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2267229]Where are the fans being turned away from? We’ve established the fans aren’t being turned away from the racecourse.

I’m not the Trust and it’s certainly not my job to recruit. I’d like to think the supporters would want to be members of the group that runs the club. If not, so be it. I don’t wish to be flippant about it. Well, maybe I do.[/QUOTE]


I think my point went over your head I was referring to your reply-- Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.

A bit of an arsey comment to a frustrated fan imho.
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[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267235]I think my point went over your head I was referring to your reply-- Nothing’s going to change any time soon so you’ll have to like it or lump it.

A bit of an arsey comment to a frustrated fan imho.
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I don’t think you could say anything that would go over my head.

Liverpool Red has been moaning for a while re our ownership structure. A bit like you. At some point you just need to like it or lump it.

You have to acknowledge that nobody wants to plough their money into this club so we’re effectively stuck with a bunch of volunteers. Those are facts.

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[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2267233]Believe me I've tried their is 9 of them 5 have not been since the end on the previous fiasco season, the other 4 since we became fan owned.... The 5 after Keates season use the many years old saying we don't want to or can't afford to go up reason, these are fans going back as far as the 60/70s so not kids to convince, like anything once you stop doing it, then its hard to start again. But my point to the Oracle was his attitude To a frustrated fan in Liverpool Red.
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Your 4 friends who haven't attended since fan ownership are Moss, Roberts, Saunders and Dickens then?

[QUOTE=GarryOggy;2267246]Your 4 friends who haven't attended since fan ownership are Moss, Roberts, Saunders and Dickens then?[/QUOTE]


What a stupid knob jockey reply
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[QUOTE=Liverpool Red;2267210]Speaking from a personal point of view, I am at the stage where I have zero enthusiasm for the forthcoming season. We do not have enough money to compete with the best teams in the division and the chances of us getting promoted under the ownership of the football club board are extremely limited because they apparently do not think the club needs any investment. Things will not change while these people own the club and make the key decisions.[/QUOTE]

Why are you saying this? We have improved both our league position and points total for the last three seasons. This resulted in a play off place last season.

Yet you say our chances of promotion are "extremely limited". This makes no sense.

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[QUOTE=dolly dagger;2267248]Why are you saying this? We have improved both our league position and points total for the last three seasons. This resulted in a play off place last season.

Yet you say our chances of promotion are "extremely limited". This makes no sense.[/QUOTE]


That view will be taken from one play off spot in seven years,very true really.

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[QUOTE=billybersham;2267249]That view will be taken from one play off spot in seven years,very true really.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's handy that you know what his view is. The current board have been in place for three years not seven. We have improved during that time.

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[QUOTE=dolly dagger;2267255]Well, it's handy that you know what his view is. The current board have been in place for three years not seven. We have improved during that time.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that with 2 year contracts on key players and a decent player retention (maybe too many :) ) and BH to improve as a manager then improvement will continue. Kaisan.

However this was something the fans were complaining about and suffered poor leadership and discipline of Mills.

We need to move on and its about the new season now.

Lets hope the lessons were learned.

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[QUOTE=pagl;2267256]I am hoping that with 2 year contracts on key players and a decent player retention (maybe too many :) ) and BH to improve as a manager then improvement will continue. Kaisan.

However this was something the fans were complaining about and suffered poor leadership and discipline of Mills.

[B]We need to move on and its about the new season now.

Lets hope the lessons were learned[/B].[/QUOTE]
That should be your signature Pagl :)

Or can I use that?:toff: