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garb 13th July 2019 12.29:13

Scott butler
 
Seems he's signed with swansea.
Any info about him playing style etc. I doing a piece on the new scholarship's at scfc. Thanks.

louisleftboot 13th July 2019 12.38:17

Re: Scott butler
 
Never heard of him.

Ddraigoch 13th July 2019 12.43:25

Re: Scott butler
 
Has he been playing for us?

dixienormous 13th July 2019 12.43:53

Re: Scott butler
 
He's crap

louisleftboot 13th July 2019 12.47:42

Re: Scott butler
 
[URL="https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-city-confirm-new-scholars"]https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-city-confirm-new-scholars[/URL]


From a Leader article
[quote]Wrexham's Bobby Beaumont and current Wrexham County Schools Under-16's captain Scott Butler, who has secured a contract with Swansea City for next season will be representing Wales.[/quote]
Not sure if was at Wrexham AFC or just from Wrexham. He played for Wrexham Schoolboys under 18s

Rob Edwards 13th July 2019 12.53:22

Re: Scott butler
 
Poached via Lee Jones academy?

Teifi Red 13th July 2019 12.56:00

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=garb;2273886]Seems he's signed with swansea.
Any info about him playing style etc. I doing a piece on the new scholarship's at scfc. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Suggest you message Giggitygiggityggiggitygoo or Bagger Vance on here. If anyone on this forum really knows what you’re after they would be a good starting point.
(I apologise if there are other genuinely in the know members not mentioned)

WasanActonlad 13th July 2019 12.57:25

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=dixienormous;2273890]He's crap[/QUOTE]


The "oracle" speaks again....

dixienormous 13th July 2019 13.03:37

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=WasanActonlad;2273895]The "oracle" speaks again....[/QUOTE]

He's obviously not crap is he?

Im starting to worry about you...have you been robbing my undies for a sniff or something?

Hamilton Pathetic 13th July 2019 13.19:39

Re: Scott butler
 
EFL clubs can now pinch our young hopefuls (under 17's) for free, i.e. no compensation paid and without any comeback thanks to new EFL rules. This was brought up at the Club's AGM, all Non-League club youth schemes are subject to the same circumstance.

I can't recall the exact details but Spencer Harris did go into it in some depth and part of his role is to try and obtain some recompense from the EFL clubs, who are under no obligation to do so.

Bagger Vance 13th July 2019 15.00:38

Re: Scott butler
 
I remember signing Scott when he was an under 8 - how time flies! Big loss, very athletic, good attitude, strong and technically decent if he kept up levels from the last time I saw him then Swansea have a prospect on their hands.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 13th July 2019 15.25:36

Re: Scott butler
 
Good luck to him, will be better off at Swansea it's sad to say, who are looking to the academy for their first team players once more.

I bet Noah Daley signs for them very soon, Lee Jenkins highly rated Centreback who's at Aberystwyth Town is currently on a 3 week trial at Hull City. Made his debut last season at 16 and has represented Wales Schoolboys. Certainly some talent out there, trouble is if they aren't quite ready for the first team who do they play for?


Positives to be taken that we're actually now getting these lads it seems in on trial, but we've no infrastructure to help them grow which needs sorting first.

It can be done with the right approach and attitude, that's lacking currently at the top.

Oldfan 15th July 2019 06.37:39

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2273960]Good luck to him, will be better off at Swansea it's sad to say, who are looking to the academy for their first team players once more.

I bet Noah Daley signs for them very soon, Lee Jenkins highly rated Centreback who's at Aberystwyth Town is currently on a 3 week trial at Hull City. Made his debut last season at 16 and has represented Wales Schoolboys. Certainly some talent out there, trouble is if they aren't quite ready for the first team who do they play for?


Positives to be taken that we're actually now getting these lads it seems in on trial, but we've no infrastructure to help them grow which needs sorting first.

It can be done with the right approach and attitude, that's lacking currently at the top.[/QUOTE]
My understanding is that any players we bring through who are any good can simply be taken without the football club getting anything for them. So what is the point of bringing players through until we're back in the EFL? We seem to be recruiting for league clubs at our own expense,there's no other way of looking at it.

pagl 15th July 2019 06.51:22

Re: Scott butler
 
Seems Daley may have been worth a punt. Although chances are he might have cost too much. Swansea can obviously offer him more and they are looking at loans, free transfers and I guess the cheaper end.
Obviously whilst also getting youth from us.

The Turf 15th July 2019 12.40:57

Re: Scott butler
 
Very decent prospect. He and his family are huge Wrexham fans but the chance to go up the pyramid (and get paid) obviously to good to turn
Down. Best of luck To him.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 16.10:12

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Oldfan;2274180]My understanding is that any players we bring through who are any good can simply be taken without the football club getting anything for them. So what is the point of bringing players through until we're back in the EFL? We seem to be recruiting for league clubs at our own expense,there's no other way of looking at it.[/QUOTE]

You've been lied too, no shock there. Join the Welsh System and we get more protections on paper, also via the conventional way it's done other clubs no harm and could see them making tidy sums a la Danny Ward.

Nobody on the football board is ars*d, easier making excuses. We do the same to WPL clubs, but they don't moan about it, the irony eh? All because we're able to due FIFA rules and other clubs in England can't take them or they leave with there clubs blessing. Basically WPL clubs do all our scouting for us, we then arrange games via twitter with these sides, should a lad impress he usual makes the move.

The best bit is the likes of Everton and Liverpool look to pay us fees regardless, but we can't even be bothered to reply back, so miss out.

Once 17 my understanding is lads can sign pro contracts too, plenty of ways around things, but like said easier blaming someone else.

All very amateur and pathetic, rather play in the college leagues or no league than join the structured Welsh system. All because of what a small minority will say...

dlrwrexham 15th July 2019 17.39:18

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Hamilton Pathetic;2273905]EFL clubs can now pinch our young hopefuls (under 17's) for free, i.e. no compensation paid and without any comeback thanks to new EFL rules. This was brought up at the Club's AGM, all Non-League club youth schemes are subject to the same circumstance.

I can't recall the exact details but Spencer Harris did go into it in some depth and part of his role is to try and obtain some recompense from the EFL clubs, who are under no obligation to do so.[/QUOTE]

A most Trumpian development!.:31:

Alan Attack 15th July 2019 18.54:19

Re: Scott butler
 
Can we join the Welsh set up being a club who plays in the English leagues? Do other Welsh teams who play in the English leagues do this? Interested to know.

Oldfan 15th July 2019 19.03:09

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2274273]You've been lied too, no shock there. Join the Welsh System and we get more protections on paper, also via the conventional way it's done other clubs no harm and could see them making tidy sums a la Danny Ward.

Nobody on the football board is ars*d, easier making excuses. We do the same to WPL clubs, but they don't moan about it, the irony eh? All because we're able to due FIFA rules and other clubs in England can't take them or they leave with there clubs blessing. Basically WPL clubs do all our scouting for us, we then arrange games via twitter with these sides, should a lad impress he usual makes the move.

The best bit is the likes of Everton and Liverpool look to pay us fees regardless, but we can't even be bothered to reply back, so miss out.

Once 17 my understanding is lads can sign pro contracts too, plenty of ways around things, but like said easier blaming someone else.

All very amateur and pathetic, rather play in the college leagues or no league than join the structured Welsh system. All because of what a small minority will say...[/QUOTE]

You really do have a lot of detail there. Are these all facts, or hearsay? For example, you mention Everton and Liverpool offering fees and they're not been followed up? From what I've seen, the club board chase every penny. As for signing as a pro at 17, why should that be automatic? If they're good enough then sign them, but my understanding is that the League clubs tap up the parents anyway. In fact, I believe Everton scouts were banned from Colliers because of that type of approach. I guess there are may interpretations of facts its just who you get them from.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 20.17:17

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2274306]Can we join the Welsh set up being a club who plays in the English leagues? Do other Welsh teams who play in the English leagues do this? Interested to know.[/QUOTE]

Yes and Colwyn Bay definitely did + Methyr off the top of my head.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 20.28:57

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Oldfan;2274309]You really do have a lot of detail there. Are these all facts, or hearsay? For example, you mention Everton and Liverpool offering fees and they're not been followed up? From what I've seen, the club board chase every penny. As for signing as a pro at 17, why should that be automatic? If they're good enough then sign them, but my understanding is that the League clubs tap up the parents anyway. In fact, I believe Everton scouts were banned from Colliers because of that type of approach. I guess there are may interpretations of facts its just who you get them from.[/QUOTE]

All are fact, another poster who tried to pass it off as hearsay was offered the opportunity to pop down Colliers to look at correspondences by someone far more in the know than most on the CoE a while back from what I remember. Unsurprisingly, I dont think that offer was take up, the person who offered has no association with the club anymore sadly.

Who said it should be automatic? Plenty of ways around things as stated, it's easier not to bother though.

God help these young lads if we do reach the EFL once again, two contracts can be handed out, one forbidding a young lad once released from ever signing for another professional football club. I hope we dont use such contracts ever! The other requires a club to basically confirm their release so they can play else where, however when correspondences aren't replied to or it takes months opportunities are often lost.

If they chase every penny, and I know this was suggested. Why haven't they seemed out a sponsor for the CoE? They have one for practically everything else. Best bit is they refused to do this ffs!

We were also promised more news on the CoE, it was a promising start, but because on the whole some sides struggled. That information once again like has become far too common a theme has been withheld again.


How do the board expect to drum up interest when it goes unreported, only the die hards know what the odd result was. RP alone used to pump in a lot of cash, not anymore and I dont see any chasing going to get it going again. Chester up the road take every opportunity to shout about their academy which is paying dividends in keeping it going, over a 1000 people attended one youth game against Gateshead a few months back which generated a fair bit of money for their academy.

No such forward thinking at Wrexham, let alone leadership, all seems a bit rudderless.

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 20.52:41

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2274317]Yes and Colwyn Bay definitely did + Methyr off the top of my head.[/QUOTE]

What does “join the Welsh set-up” mean?

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 21.12:32

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274324]What does “join the Welsh set-up” mean?[/QUOTE]

Joing their Youth system structure, leagues etc. Also potentially it could offer a lot of protections due to FIFA rules

May as well now, at least they'll be gurantees on games not 'Penycae have said on twitter they may be available this Saturday'!

Are board are scared of what a small minority might say about signing up to the FAW youth system. Truly is sad, rather play in a college league instead and arrange games on a ad hoc bases via twitter like amateur clubs arrange friendlies.

No wonder lads look to leave at the first opportunity, Leo Smith publicly venting his frustrations on a lack of game time youd think would see things being done to change.

The board have read the comments, they know all about it by now, but can't be ars*d even investigating it.

Haruki 15th July 2019 21.17:22

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2274328]Joing their Youth system structure, leagues etc. Also potentially it could offer a lot of protections due to FIFA rules

May as well now, at least they'll be gurantees on games not 'Penycae have said on twitter they may be available this Saturday'!

Are board are scared of what a small minority might say about signing up to the FAW youth system. Truly is sad, rather play in a college league instead and arrange games on a ad hoc bases via twitter like amateur clubs arrange friendlies.

No wonder lads look to leave at the first opportunity, Leo Smith publicly venting his frustrations on a lack of game time youd think would see things being done to change.

The board have read the comments, they know all about it by now, but can't be ars*d even investigating it.[/QUOTE]

Is it that the board don't want to tie themselves to the Welsh system as they want to be able to rejoin the English system and benefit from the large £'s on offer when we are eventually promoted?

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 21.20:40

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Haruki;2274329]Is it that the board don't want to tie themselves to the Welsh system as they want to be able to rejoin the English system and benefit from the large £'s on offer when we are eventually promoted?[/QUOTE]

From what I understand we can leave when we achieve promotion, nothing stopping us at all.

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 21.21:03

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2274328]Joing their Youth system structure, leagues etc. Also potentially it could offer a lot of protections due to FIFA rules

May as well now, at least they'll be gurantees on games not 'Penycae have said on twitter they may be available this Saturday'!

Are board are scared of what a small minority might say about signing up to the FAW youth system. Truly is sad, rather play in a college league instead and arrange games on a ad hoc bases via twitter like amateur clubs arrange friendlies.

No wonder lads look to leave at the first opportunity, Leo Smith publicly venting his frustrations on a lack of game time youd think would see things being done to change.

The board have read the comments, they know all about it by now, but can't be ars*d even investigating it.[/QUOTE]

That would seem a short-sighted/short-term/untenable move since our overriding aim is to get back into the EFL. I can see why it would work for Colwyn Bay and for Merthyr as they have no hope of ever playing in the EFL. I can’t see how it would work for us.

redtilidie 15th July 2019 21.22:40

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274331]That would seem a short-sighted/short-term/untenable move since our overriding aim is to get back into the EFL. I can see why it would work for Colwyn Bay and for Merthyr as they have no hope of ever playing in the EFL. I can’t see how it would work for us.[/QUOTE]

12 years ??

Junior Shabadoo 15th July 2019 21.25:35

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274331]That would seem a short-sighted/short-term/untenable move since our overriding aim is to get back into the EFL. I can see why it would work for Colwyn Bay and for Merthyr as they have no hope of ever playing in the EFL. I can’t see how it would work for us.[/QUOTE]

By the post immediately above yours. And even if not, the club has wasted years with no youth plan at all beyond “we’ll sort it out when we go up”, as if that’s inevitable. Switching seems more sensible than that.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 21.28:35

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274331]That would seem a short-sighted/short-term/untenable move since our overriding aim is to get back into the EFL. I can see why it would work for Colwyn Bay and for Merthyr as they have no hope of ever playing in the EFL. I can’t see how it would work for us.[/QUOTE]

From what I understand we don't even meet the criteria currently to be accepted as a category club to play in the EFL. It's a big ask sorting that all out I time, especially if we go up via the play offs.

It's none of those you mention, looking to get the best deals for ourselves and retaining where possible the lads with a future in professional football is longterm thinking.

It'll take years to get things right again once promoted to stop the rot.

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 21.34:14

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Junior Shabadoo;2274334]By the post immediately above yours. And even if not, the club has wasted years with no youth plan at all beyond “we’ll sort it out when we go up”, as if that’s inevitable. Switching seems more sensible than that.[/QUOTE]

What advantage does joining the likes of Afan Lido and Cambrian and Clydach have for us? Is it that we’d get better transfer fees and/or funding? I don’t know the ins and outs to be honest. Is there nothing we’d lose out on and are there no costs involved to us?

It doesn’t seem to me on the surface that it would be worth much time or investment for something hopefully temporary, and in my view any move in general away from the English professional leagues to the Welsh semi-professional set up is not one I’m instinctively drawn to.

Can you explain the details?

As for the 12 years thing - I thought the rules on EFL clubs being able to take youth players from non-league clubs for free were only changed fairly recently - no?

Junior Shabadoo 15th July 2019 21.44:04

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274341]What advantage does joining the likes of Afan Lido and Cambrian and Clydach have for us? Is it that we’d get better transfer fees and/or funding? I don’t know the ins and outs to be honest. Is there nothing we’d lose out on and are there no costs involved to us?

It doesn’t seem to me on the surface that it would be worth much time or investment for something hopefully temporary, and in my view any move in general away from the English professional leagues to the Welsh semi-professional set up is not one I’m instinctively drawn to.

Can you explain the details?

As for the 12 years thing - I thought the rules on EFL clubs being able to take youth players from non-league clubs for free were only changed fairly recently - no?[/QUOTE]

The point is there is no investment now, but a switch would bring some into the club. If, as detailed above, you can switch back then we’re essentially sitting around waiting because of being too snooty to mix with the likes of Afan Lido because we can do better - despite continually failing to do so. And while we do so the system rots further. Seeing as everything else the club does is low risk you have to wonder why the reverse is true with the youth system as every year of zero investment makes it harder to succeed.

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 21.45:50

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Junior Shabadoo;2274344]The point is there is no investment now, but a switch would bring some into the club. If, as detailed above, you can switch back then we’re essentially sitting around waiting because of being too snooty to mix with the likes of Afan Lido because we can do better - despite continually failing to do so. And while we do so the system rots further. Seeing as everything else the club does is low risk you have to wonder why the reverse is true with the youth system as every year of zero investment makes it harder to succeed.[/QUOTE]

What investment would it bring?

Bigmike 15th July 2019 21.53:30

Re: Scott butler
 
The premier league clubs are always watching games involving the development teams of smaller clubs. We have lost lads as young as 13/14 and I don't think we got anything to compensate us. EDIT I have just read through the thread and there is some good well informed discussion therein. I therefore should add my involvement at the club was some time ago. I made the assumption that things are still the same.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 21.58:27

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274341]What advantage does joining the likes of Afan Lido and Cambrian and Clydach have for us? Is it that we’d get better transfer fees and/or funding? I don’t know the ins and outs to be honest. Is there nothing we’d lose out on and are there no costs involved to us?

It doesn’t seem to me on the surface that it would be worth much time or investment for something hopefully temporary, and in my view any move in general away from the English professional leagues to the Welsh semi-professional set up is not one I’m instinctively drawn to.

Can you explain the details?

As for the 12 years thing - I thought the rules on EFL clubs being able to take youth players from non-league clubs for free were only changed fairly recently - no?[/QUOTE]

Lads playing in a defined structure, gauranteed games on a given date, no 'Llay might play us Saturday' The Fifa protections would be greater than those in the EFL, one age group can be had for £4,000 in compensation to a maximum of £40,000 at 16. We'd get more as some of these lads would not be allowed to transfer until at least 16 under more stringent FIFA rules.

We don't currently meet the status for EFL anyway, we have to employ at least academy secretary on a part time contract as well as all sorts of other things. No way that gets all done in summer, I bet the current board don't have a clue let alone a plan in place. Even the things we could do now like the requirement for a clearly defined plan, mission statement whatever you want to call it doesn't seem to exist.

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 22.01:15

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274345]What investment would it bring?[/QUOTE]

To answer my own question, there is no academy funding available for non-WPL clubs who participate in the FAW academy system.

“Is there any funding for Academies?

Only top-division clubs are able to benefit from the UEFA Champions League Solidarity Grant, which is distributed subject to meeting the Audit requirements. At its discretion, the FAW will consider Parachute Payments for relegated Welsh Premier League clubs in their first season of relegation. All other academies must be self- sufficient.”

[url]https://www.wpl.cymru/uploads/documents/originals/Academy%20Regulations%202018-19%20-Accredited.pdf#page20[/url]

Todd Sweeney 15th July 2019 22.23:14

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2274348]Lads playing in a defined structure, gauranteed games on a given date, no 'Llay might play us Saturday' The Fifa protections would be greater than those in the EFL, one age group can be had for £4,000 in compensation to a maximum of £40,000 at 16. We'd get more as some of these lads would not be allowed to transfer until at least 16 under more stringent FIFA rules.

We don't currently meet the status for EFL anyway, we have to employ at least academy secretary on a part time contract as well as all sorts of other things. No way that gets all done in summer, I bet the current board don't have a clue let alone a plan in place. Even the things we could do now like the requirement for a clearly defined plan, mission statement whatever you want to call it doesn't seem to exist.[/QUOTE]

FIFA rules don’t apply to the EFL?

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 22.27:58

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274349]To answer my own question, there is no academy funding available for non-WPL clubs who participate in the FAW academy system.

“Is there any funding for Academies?

Only top-division clubs are able to benefit from the UEFA Champions League Solidarity Grant, which is distributed subject to meeting the Audit requirements. At its discretion, the FAW will consider Parachute Payments for relegated Welsh Premier League clubs in their first season of relegation. All other academies must be self- sufficient.”

[url]https://www.wpl.cymru/uploads/documents/originals/Academy%20Regulations%202018-19%20-Accredited.pdf#page20[/url][/QUOTE]

The even longer term picture is Swansea are an academy 1 catagory club, this means they can recruit players from any of the home nations, hence the satellite academies in area. Swansea are on record as saying they'll be looking to recruit from Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, England they say is too fierce. Cardiff City have similar aspirations and are well on track to replicating Swansea City. Throw in the other category clubs and even if promoted with funding unless we go for Catagory 1 or get to a similar league standing is a waste of time, it's a distant dream for us.

Entering the alternative Welsh system offers us more protection from such clubs until we're in a position where we can truly compete. The aim should be to bring players through to the first team, not making a fast buck or ensuring we get played peanuts at an early development stage.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 15th July 2019 22.30:48

Re: Scott butler
 
[QUOTE=Todd Sweeney;2274350]FIFA rules don’t apply to the EFL?[/QUOTE]

This set don't, comes down to players being registered to different associations and not being able to transfer until 16 due to child trafficking and the like.


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