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Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 08.23:34

Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Last season we had a poll in January to see where fans were at with both boards.
I think we should have another poll now what with January coming home to roost and it being clear that nothing changes regardless of blunders and poor decision making. That's aside from the lack of communication, lack of humility and no hint of any accountability. The only person who is accountable is the manager.

Hometown Unicorn 4th September 2019 08.30:16

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
It's not as simple as a yes or no for me. I have confidence in some areas of the board but I don't have confidence in Spencer Harris in his current role.

As for the WST board, they keep putting off my emails offering to volunteer. I hope this isn't the case with everyone else.

Haruki 4th September 2019 08.32:40

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Hometown Unicorn;2289507]It's not as simple as a yes or no for me. I have confidence in some areas of the board but I don't have confidence in Spencer Harris in his current role.

As for the WST board, they keep putting off my emails offering to volunteer. I hope this isn't the case with everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Out of interest what have you volunteered to do?

Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 08.32:43

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
If you do still have confidence, 3 still do so far, it would be good to hear why? Genuine question.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 4th September 2019 08.33:18

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Hometown Unicorn;2289507]It's not as simple as a yes or no for me. I have confidence in some areas of the board but I don't have confidence in Spencer Harris in his current role.

As for the WST board, they keep putting off my emails offering to volunteer. I hope this isn't the case with everyone else.[/QUOTE]

I've offered a small amount of helping about an idea of mine and communicating better with the masses, years on still waiting.

Interesting that person contacted was passing a similar idea off as his own, but wanted it in the Leader and not on RP.

El Jonez 4th September 2019 08.41:51

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Off the field a big [B]YES[/B]. They should be applauded for many positive things.

On the field (footballing matters) a huge [B]NO[/B]. The Davies/Barrow/Newell/Lawrence farce coupled with the appointment of Hughes is my reasoning.

Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 08.44:20

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=El Jonez;2289514]Off the field a big [B]YES[/B]. They should be applauded for many positive things.

On the field (footballing matters) a huge [B]NO[/B]. The Davies/Barrow/Newell/Lawrence farce coupled with the appointment of Hughes is my reasoning.[/QUOTE]

This is a football club? On the field is what we're all about! Fans do not flock to the racecourse for anything off the field.

So that's a no from you then.

Wenttoanderlechtin76 4th September 2019 08.48:35

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
4 of the board have voted already

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 08.50:42

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Difficult to answer as I think it's too complex to boil down to Yes or No.

As said above, off the field they do a great job. But the football side needs a lot of work and I don't have the confidence in us achieving anything if they continue to run it.

So I voted Yes, but on the premise there is a change on the current structure. For example, bringing in someone with experience in a director of football role perhaps.

Superunknown 4th September 2019 08.52:07

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289515]This is a football club? On the field is what we're all about! Fans do not flock to the racecourse for anything off the field.

So that's a no from you then.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Felt the question was based mostly on confidence of them getting results on the pitch, which tbh I'm surprised some have actually said yes to.

Haruki 4th September 2019 08.54:17

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289511]If you do still have confidence, 3 still do so far, it would be good to hear why? Genuine question.[/QUOTE]

Like many i see the club board having made some solid decision with off the field activities and finances but then some other very poor decisions off the field too such as
- Holding a money spinning friendly with Vaughan's Bangor
- Leaving fans in some very poor conditions at the stadium such as toilets not working, bird muck on seats etc
- Refusal to act upon the owners instructions over the disabled viewing platform

Then where do you start on the playing side of the club, absolute shambles. A professional business running its core activities on part time staff is what we have become. The Barrow fiasco, Mike Newell, appointing a failed Scarborough manager, the list goes on and on and most worrying if Hughes left today i think a similarly bad decision would follow.

The areas of the club that i think have been really successful are the ones where we appoint people to do specialist roles. Commercial is really good under Geoff Scott. The lads in the club shop are an absolute credit to the club, so friendly and helpful. And personally i think the media team output is largely very good, some criticise the tracksuits and the tame questions in interviews but the social media updates and the youtube highlights etc are top notch in my opinion.

As for the WST board? I am struggling to know what they actually do. Loads of names on the board but the end product is not visible to the rank and file fans. Off the top of my head i can only think of the Youth football day as a recent activity. Membership seems to have moved to the lads in the club shop, Fundraising efforts seem to have dried up. Added to the fact the source of the leaks still sits in a senior position.

My main issue with the WST board though is it is too close to the WAFC board, too cosy and there is no separation. As our elected representatives, the WST board should be questioning the WAFC board and holding them to account on their decisions and understanding how their mistakes are being rectified. All i can see from the outside is a big pat on the back club.

Superunknown 4th September 2019 08.54:41

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2289518]Difficult to answer as I think it's too complex to boil down to Yes or No.

As said above, off the field they do a great job. But the football side needs a lot of work and I don't have the confidence in us achieving anything if they continue to run it.

So I voted Yes, but on the premise there is a change on the current structure. For example, bringing in someone with experience in a director of football role perhaps.[/QUOTE]

It's really not tbh. They obviously do a great job off the field, no one disputes that and they should carry on with this.

But as a football club, where are the positives, what have they shown over the past 5 years that signals to us, as fans that they have the ability to pick a manager who can get results on the field and if they can, what will they do to ensure we keep such a manager who could potentially get us up.

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 08.58:04

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Superunknown;2289525]It's really not tbh. They obviously do a great job off the field, no one disputes that and they should carry on with this.

But as a football club, where are the positives, what have they shown over the past 5 years that signals to us, as fans that they have the ability to pick a manager who can get results on the field and if they can, what will they do to ensure we keep such a manager who could potentially get us up.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, the question does ask "Do you have any confidence left in the board?". That can cover a lot, which is why I think it's difficult to answer simply with yes or no. Really it should be asking "Do you have confidence in the board to achieve success on the pitch?" or something similar.

I agree, they aren't competent enough to achieve, which is why I answered Yes I have confidence but we need a change in structure.

Red Dragon Froomie 4th September 2019 09.02:06

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Imagine having confidence in a board that gave Bryan Hughes a 3.5 year deal. That's just the most recent blunder...

dixienormous 4th September 2019 09.02:38

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
7 dangerous people on here

Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 09.02:58

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Reminder that we're a football club.
Its all about the football.
Maybe I should have made the poll clearer but I thought that part was bleedin obvious.

Its like a building keeping his van and his tools, his accounts in perfect order but when it comes to actually doing his job i.e. building he's terrible at it. What's the point in all that stuff behind the scenes if you can't carry out the main job that is the whole purpose of the business? Flawed logic if ever there was.

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 09.07:44

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289533]Reminder that we're a football club.
Its all about the football.
Maybe I should have made the poll clearer but I thought that part was bleedin obvious.

Its like a building keeping his van and his tools, his accounts in perfect order but when it comes to actually doing his job i.e. building he's terrible at it. What's the point in all that stuff behind the scenes if you can't carry out the main job that is the whole purpose of the business? Flawed logic if ever there was.[/QUOTE]

Personally I think it's fair to say they've done good and bad. Yes, I agree entirely that the football is the most important as that's what brings in fans. Hence why I think specifically on that I don't have confidence in them to achieve.

But I don't think the board need to be completely sacked yet. We need to bring in someone to manage the football.

CRUMBS 4th September 2019 09.10:25

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Well put Haruki , things seem to be slipping , anyone who does the shop work etc shouldn't be given as credit to the Board but to themselves .

joe 4th September 2019 09.10:52

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Great job off the field which we're all grateful for, but there's only so far that can take you, and at the end of the day it's a football club not a banking firm.

Things need a change as they clearly don't have a clue about footballing matters, strange decision after strange decision, plenty of questions asked but never ever answered, and I find that no accountability being taken shows the arrogance of the board.

When we eventually have to cut our losses and sack Hughes (hopefully sooner rather than later), I have no confidence that we will have an explanation to the January fiasco nor do I have confidence that we will appoint a good long term successor to Hughes, it'll either be another poor chap out of his depth or a good manager that would soon leave to bigger and better things.

podders 4th September 2019 09.17:35

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
As the question is ANY confidence, then even having some level of confidence in the Trust board means you answer yes.

I have probably lost confidence in the boards approach to the footballing decisions, i have said on the 'director of football' thread that i would like to see someone with recent experience in professional football on the club board to advise on the football related approach.

But looking at the club as a whole it is run better than at any point i have been a fan and you have to look at the club as a whole as the football part and the business/commercial/community part of the club cannot exists without the other.

If i had to push for a new ownership model i would want to see a Community Investment Company set up. This is a similar ownership model to Solihull Moors and Darlington 1883. This is a company set up where the profits can only be invested back into the company. For Solihull Moors it is around 10 private investors, for Darlington 1883 it is majority owned by there supporters trust.

Prodigal Dragon 4th September 2019 09.24:57

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=El Jonez;2289514]Off the field a big [B]YES[/B]. They should be applauded for many positive things.

On the field (footballing matters) a huge [B]NO[/B]. The Davies/Barrow/Newell/Lawrence farce coupled with the appointment of Hughes is my reasoning.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

Ultimately, the important behind the scenes stuff is lost in the noise if the football is unsuccessful. The Board are running the business side well -- within the limitations -- but their lack of understanding about appointing managers and coaches is a fundamental flaw that must be addressed asap. Otherwise, the cash-flow will dry up and we will be up sh1t creek without a paddle.

The poll is too narrow, and mirrors the Brexit fiasco by having only a binary option. If life were only so 'black & white', rather than the murky grey it often is!

Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 09.28:21

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Again, we're a football club. Everything off the field should result in results on the field, if at any point that stops working then they haven't done their jobs. Simple stuff.

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 09.29:58

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289553]Again, we're a football club. Everything off the field should result in results on the field, if at any point that stops working then they haven't done their jobs. Simple stuff.[/QUOTE]

That's far too simple an approach Phil. If they have positives that benefit the club (such as managing the finances well) then they should definitely continue to do that, and we should be looking at bringing in a Director of Football or something similar.

Phils-an-alki 4th September 2019 09.37:00

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2289555]That's far too simple an approach Phil. If they have positives that benefit the club (such as managing the finances well) then they should definitely continue to do that, and we should be looking at bringing in a Director of Football or something similar.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. They should be judged on where they have taken the club IMO and that's nowhere, backwards if anything. Its all about the football and success or at least visible progress for me.

Lets not forget the January fiasco, Manny contract secret and their manipulation of 'good news' to win favour with fans. Poor management of the stadium and ignoring any criticism with silence. John Mills antics with fezbob and other dreadful behaviour which in any normal company would have seen him sacked.

This off the field everything is dandy line doesn't wash with me. We can't even keep hold of a manager for one season so that also backs that up.

podders 4th September 2019 09.38:50

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289553]Again, we're a football club. Everything off the field should result in results on the field, if at any point that stops working then they haven't done their jobs. Simple stuff.[/QUOTE]

When the Trust first took over, and we got our first bit of football fortune. There was talk of some of that fortune going towards the youth system. The overwhelming opinion on here was that no money should be diverted from the first team budget for 'kids'. That in part has given rise to the 'cost neutral' approach to our youth system - which hasn't gone so well.

Once you start to ignore one part of the club its very hard to get back.

Prodigal Dragon 4th September 2019 09.42:23

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289553]Again, we're a football club. Everything off the field should result in results on the field, if at any point that stops working then they haven't done their jobs. Simple stuff.[/QUOTE]

In your mind it clearly is but others -- myself included -- disagree.

To adapt your analogy of the builder with great accounts but poor workmanship. How many good builders or companies fail because, whilst they are very good at their job, they don't do the essential admin bumf on time and to the right standard? Far too many.

The club must get both sides of the business correct. Currently, they are about 70% behind the scenes, whilst about 30% on the pitch. They are open about many things but become insular when attacked. I fully understand their reaction to some of the bile and vitriol thrown at them but, equally, their inability to reflect on their failings and make the changes is extremely worrying.

Ultimately, it is for the Chairman of the WST to hold the Wrexham FC Board to account. That supervisory role failed from when Ricketts decided to leave, when the Board went UDI due to their not trusting elements within the WST upper echelons, who were leaking information.

At the moment, the WST model is all we have, but it is dependent on supporters' financial and actual support. That trust in the Trust has disintegrated amongst many, and been tried amongst most. The WST must get a grip of this before our position both on and off the field worsens.

But, finally, we are the WST. If we are not happy with how some or all of our representatives are conducting themselves then we must seek alternative folk to run things. But that is a massive commitment that few seem willing to make.

IMHO, we should not 'throw the baby out with the bathwater', but we do need some fresh brains on the Board to get us back on track before it all runs away. Don't prevaricate. Think then act!:guitarist:

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 09.44:38

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289559]Fair enough but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. They should be judged on where they have taken the club IMO and that's nowhere, backwards if anything. Its all about the football and success or at least visible progress for me.

Lets not forget the January fiasco, Manny contract secret and their manipulation of 'good news' to win favour with fans. Poor management of the stadium and ignoring any criticism with silence. John Mills antics with fezbob and other dreadful behaviour which in any normal company would have seen him sacked.

This off the field everything is dandy line doesn't wash with me. We can't even keep hold of a manager for one season so that also backs that up.[/QUOTE]

I think those of us with the "off the field is dandy" stance do not disagree with how poorly the board have dealt with the football management aspect. I have been very vocal in that during times of mismanagement. But the club extends beyond the football as far as management goes and I do think that needs to be taken into account when deciding if they're fit to run things. In my eyes, they have done enough to justify retaining their position.

But, and I can't emphasise this enough, I 100% agree they should have the football team management taken away and given to someone who can handle it better. The January fiasco was one of the most embarrassing things I've witnessed and I don't want to see it happen ever again.

redinsaudi 4th September 2019 09.52:27

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
It’s about the football for me and what’s gone on it’s unforgivable. If they truly loved this club they would go.

dixienormous 4th September 2019 09.55:29

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
13 clappers

Ooh aah Paskin 4th September 2019 10.07:34

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Not a black and white answer for me. I voted No as I don't feel, football wise, they are doing a good job. Majority of other things I am fine with.
I have said that I don't want a mass clear out, just a reorganising and hopefully get some football knowledge co-opted onto the club board.

JonoWafc 4th September 2019 10.09:29

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Off the field - Yes

On the field - No.

sparky 4th September 2019 10.21:27

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
No.

What are we now, 12 years, and it looks for all the world already that we will still be here next season. Meanwhile, Luton are playing Championship football, Lincoln are in league one and will soon be in the money from their management appointments, and conference football for Orient, Mansfield Tranmere will never been seen again, if at all, for some time, you get my drift. Meanwhile we have a league fixture cancelled for the most worthless cup comp you have ever come across.

We have no assets on the pitch to speak of, the less said about the youth system the better and so we are now reliant on cup runs to generate some proper income.

The stadium is a mess, I still can't understand a word the PA says and god knows where we train.

The spin is painfull, 'spiritual home', 'exciting times' 'fans can', as are Peter Jones' rants. And Mr Mills' ( not the **** head) behaviour towards fellow fans is nothing to be proud of is well as one or two tit bits you pick up.

What can you say about the appointment of Hughes that has not already been said? But let's not forget, Darlington, I mean the board wanted Lawrence to start with, really?

If things continue as they are, on the back of some very decent revenue the past few years, then I fair to see how those at the top table can continue.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 4th September 2019 10.21:35

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2289555]That's far too simple an approach Phil. If they have positives that benefit the club (such as managing the finances well) then they should definitely continue to do that, and we should be looking at bringing in a Director of Football or something similar.[/QUOTE]

What happens when the finances are squeezed further due to fans not turning up? Relegation? Another squeeze on top of that?

I wouldn't say at the minute they're handling finances as well as they can be, it's not being maximised in any area apart from Commercial, although if that goes hand in hand with the kiosk on match day again that's failing.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 4th September 2019 10.23:36

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=podders;2289560]When the Trust first took over, and we got our first bit of football fortune. There was talk of some of that fortune going towards the youth system. The overwhelming opinion on here was that no money should be diverted from the first team budget for 'kids'. That in part has given rise to the 'cost neutral' approach to our youth system - which hasn't gone so well.

Once you start to ignore one part of the club its very hard to get back.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't help they were actively looking to sell 'kids'to balance the CoE books. Moss did that to much outrage.

Make it to the first team and these lads are instantly worth more, just how football works.

Foxy 4th September 2019 10.28:40

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
Managed decline became mismanaged decline when Bircham and Horne left.

NedStarksGhost 4th September 2019 10.28:50

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2289583]What happens when the finances are squeezed further due to fans not turning up? Relegation? Another squeeze on top of that?

I wouldn't say at the minute they're handling finances as well as they can be, it's not being maximised in any area apart from Commercial, although if that goes hand in hand with the kiosk on match day again that's failing.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. But I have pointed out, numerous times, I don't want them to run the football. So I don't understand the point your making about fans not turning up? Of course financially we will be worse off. But I would like to think that they have planned for that scenario by having an emergency fund.

And I agree, they could be investing more into other areas such as the stadium. The PA system needs some work, as well as the toilets in the Yale. I didn't say they're doing a perfect job.

GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo 4th September 2019 10.34:41

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=NedStarksGhost;2289587]I don't know. But I have pointed out, numerous times, I don't want them to run the football. So I don't understand the point your making about fans not turning up? Of course financially we will be worse off. But I would like to think that they have planned for that scenario by having an emergency fund.

And I agree, they could be investing more into other areas such as the stadium. The PA system needs some work, as well as the toilets in the Yale. I didn't say they're doing a perfect job.[/QUOTE]

You said they were managing the finances well, I've pointed out they could and should be doing much better on that side too.

Dwindling crowds, reduced income to me would be not handling the finances well, nor the number of pay offs we've bad over the years, all the loan players who've never played who cost us even if we dont pay wages for them etc.

El Jonez 4th September 2019 10.35:18

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2289515]This is a football club? On the field is what we're all about! Fans do not flock to the racecourse for anything off the field.

So that's a no from you then.[/QUOTE]

Indeed...I voted [B]NO[/B] before my comments in the thread.

Wenttoanderlechtin76 4th September 2019 10.37:44

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
The arrogance of Mills and Harris winds me up more than anything. They will just laugh this off anyway.

Get It Forward 4th September 2019 10.39:31

Re: Confidence in the Boards - WST & Club
 
As I've said previously, this shower in charge will still be blowing smoke out of their own arses about the massive floodlights and the fact we played Porto in 1984 when we're in the National League North. Which is coming by the way....
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