Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

Wycombe , heralded as the proof of the success of fans ownership , are planning to change to a hybrid -25% fans owned. The chair of the supporters trust (take note Pete Jones) has said: “ the club has two options...cut our cloth accordingly (fans ownership) and find our level which is...National League. Or find a partner”. He is advocating that the trust give 75% to the partner.

He goes on to say “ as a fans owned club we are asking supporters to fund the deficit every year . But we just can’t keep doing that”.

He claims that they are now riding high in the league with ground investment because of their private investors, who have already put in significant finance in the last 12 months. And that now is the time to give those investors 75%.

Very refreshing to see an open minded and forward looking pragmatist in charge of a fans trust rather than someone obsessed with ideological purity and determined to fight the battles of ten years ago.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

Very interesting.

It also contradicts the view that football league money is the missing piece.

We should definitely follow their lead.
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Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2305268]Wycombe , heralded as the proof of the success of fans ownership , are planning to change to a hybrid -25% fans owned. The chair of the supporters trust (take note Pete Jones) has said: “ the club has two options...cut our cloth accordingly (fans ownership) and find our level which is...National League. Or find a partner”. He is advocating that the trust give 75% to the partner.

He goes on to say “ as a fans owned club we are asking supporters to fund the deficit every year . But we just can’t keep doing that”.

[COLOR="Red"]He claims that they are now riding high in the league with ground investment because of their private investors, who have already put in significant finance in the last 12 months. And that now is the time to give those investors 75%.[/COLOR]

Very refreshing to see an open minded and forward looking pragmatist in charge of a fans trust rather than someone obsessed with ideological purity and determined to fight the battles of ten years ago.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Our problem at present is that we haven't got any investors.
Also significant that the Investor put money into a Fans owned club unconditionally and is now likely to be rewarded.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

For context this was bubbling away months ago so is nothing new - this from Jan [url]https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2019/january/an-open-letter-from-trevor-stroud/[/url]

Interesting to note things sounded rough off the pitch: "Faced with a concerning cashflow situation for the club over the winter months, and while negotiations have been continuing on the investment deal".

and "We are making sizeable losses each year in our current setup, and it is not either fair or viable to rely on ‘football fortune’ (cup runs and player sales) as a breakeven model each year."

"To be sustainable under Trust ownership would mean descaling the size of the on-field and off-field operations, and it will take the most optimistic of supporters to believe that that situation would not lead to a decline from our current league standing."

It is interesting to see the club appears to be sold but ground retained by the Trust, trust directors on board etc [url]http://wycombewandererstrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/TRUST-MEETING-110719.pdf[/url] assuming those slides are matched in reality.

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305277]Interesting. Our problem at present is that we haven't got any investors.
Also significant that the Investor put money into a Fans owned club unconditionally and is now likely to be rewarded.[/QUOTE]

We need to make efforts to find some!
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Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=krux;2305282]We need to make efforts to find some!
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Bang on


This is my main grievance ,,

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305277]Interesting. Our problem at present is that we haven't got any investors.
Also significant that the Investor put money into a Fans owned club unconditionally and is now likely to be rewarded.[/QUOTE]

We haven't tried

The disregard shown to ext investment is what boils my piss

Forget the Keates/ DSA storms in a tea cup

[QUOTE=krux;2305282]We need to make efforts to find some!
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He doesn’t want us to find any. Hence why he’s straight in this thread pouring cold water on it.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305277]Interesting. Our problem at present is that we haven't got any investors.
Also significant that the Investor put money into a Fans owned club unconditionally and is now likely to be rewarded.[/QUOTE]

The board don't want any ffs

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

next to go bust then, after macclesfield

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2305336]next to go bust then, after macclesfield[/QUOTE]

Or by mismanaging the club, dropping attendances and relegation to the conference north.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

they haven't got 2 mill in the bank though

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2305342]they haven't got 2 mill in the bank though[/QUOTE]

who has these days?

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

Tranmere rovers have secured a£ 2. 5 million investment

Fkn obvious to everyone on Twitter who wants to invest in us,, and he's loaded

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

Who on twitter

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

no Way will our board give up on their deluded dreams

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

We are a fans owned club if the fans don’t want that anymore we need to make it constantly known until the dimwits above us get the message and we find the investment and the right model to succeed as it is clearly not working it’s not their play thing Its our club and It’s about time they started listening before things get out of hand

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=ruthinred;2305350]Tranmere rovers have secured a£ 2. 5 million investment

Fkn obvious to everyone on Twitter who wants to invest in us,, and he's loaded[/QUOTE]

I think he would throw his toys out the pram if he didn't get all his own way.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305277]Interesting. Our problem at present is that we haven't got any investors.
Also significant that the Investor put money into a Fans owned club unconditionally and is now likely to be rewarded.[/QUOTE]

I agree QR.
I am all for ‘investment’ in the right way but where are these investors?
Forget the NDA and £5k bond stuff for a moment lets see if we even have a valid position to start from.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2305336]next to go bust then, after macclesfield[/QUOTE]

As a fan owned club we won’t go bust we will simply drop down the leagues.
Next years budget will be cut and we will get cheaper players and then struggle for another few years and drop again.

L7 with 2k crowds is probably our level.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=pagl;2305442]I agree QR.
[B]I am all for ‘investment’ in the right way but where are these investors?[/B]
Forget the NDA and £5k bond stuff for a moment lets see if we even have a valid position to start from.[/QUOTE]

Unless the club makes efforts to seek investors, or at least make it clear that they are open to investment and would welcome it, investors are not going to present themselves.

I sold my house this year, however I received zero offers before I put it on the market.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

Most people would have said that eventually the club will need outside investment to progress. But the fact that League 1 Wycombe, who are currently 2nd and presumably looking at the possibility of promotion to the Championship, are changing doesn't signify much. They have had promotion in their supporters owned period. They currently get about the same amount of support as we've had for the last two seasons.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=EnglishRed;2305462]Most people would have said that eventually the club will need outside investment to progress. But the fact that League 1 Wycombe, who are currently 2nd and presumably looking at the possibility of promotion to the Championship, are changing doesn't signify much. They have had promotion in their supporters owned period. They currently get about the same amount of support as we've had for the last two seasons.[/QUOTE]

They have already had outside investment though.

This is converting more investment to shares (I think!)

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=EnglishRed;2305462]Most people would have said that eventually the club will need outside investment to progress. But the fact that League 1 Wycombe, who are currently 2nd and presumably looking at the possibility of promotion to the Championship, are changing doesn't signify much. They have had promotion in their supporters owned period. They currently get about the same amount of support as we've had for the last two seasons.[/QUOTE]

It is the private investment that has already got them where they are. Their supporters trust chairman is saying that they can't compete under pure fans ownership.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=krux;2305461]Unless the club makes efforts to seek investors, or at least make it clear that they are open to investment and would welcome it, investors are not going to present themselves.

I sold my house this year, however I received zero offers before I put it on the market.[/QUOTE]

Yes I appreciate this.
I think the WST have taken the club as far as they can. There is now very little action from them. The WAFC basically run the club - as shown in January - but they don’t have any money.

If they ask for ‘investment’ they will lose their authority and power.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=ruthinred;2305350]Tranmere rovers have secured a£ 2. 5 million investment

Fkn obvious to everyone on Twitter who wants to invest in us,, and he's loaded[/QUOTE]

Who is it ??
Not everyone has a twitter account.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Rob;2305279]For context this was bubbling away months ago so is nothing new - this from Jan [url]https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2019/january/an-open-letter-from-trevor-stroud/[/url]

Interesting to note things sounded rough off the pitch: "Faced with a concerning cashflow situation for the club over the winter months, and while negotiations have been continuing on the investment deal".

and "We are making sizeable losses each year in our current setup, and it is not either fair or viable to rely on ‘football fortune’ (cup runs and player sales) as a breakeven model each year."

"To be sustainable under Trust ownership would mean descaling the size of the on-field and off-field operations, and it will take the most optimistic of supporters to believe that that situation would not lead to a decline from our current league standing."

It is interesting to see the club appears to be sold but ground retained by the Trust, trust directors on board etc [url]http://wycombewandererstrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/TRUST-MEETING-110719.pdf[/url] assuming those slides are matched in reality.[/QUOTE]

Judging by this link they must be desperate with a mixture of debt and unsustainable spending.

[url]https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rob-couhig-jr-yeovil-town-2564079[/url]

Would you want Rob Couhig to buy Wrexham ?

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2305466]It is the private investment that has already got them where they are. Their supporters trust chairman is saying that they can't compete under pure fans ownership.[/QUOTE]

Why can't our supporters chairman see that?

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

What have I said on countless threads as recent as today, retain a seat on a future board ie 25% then let someone else have a go who can take it forward!

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2305336]next to go bust then, after macclesfield[/QUOTE]

Or us with you idiots running it John, Spencer et al.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Helsby Red;2305985]Why can't our supporters chairman see that?[/QUOTE]

Because he doesn’t want to.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2306249]Because he doesn’t want to.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he has more sense and better judgement ?

It could be that Wycombe have debts too large for the supporters to cope with and their Trust has decided to bail out rather than oversee the demise of the club.They did inherit a club on the verge of collapse from previous private owners. Looking at who they have got as the new owner they are clearly very desperate.

I understand why some want private ownership but just inviting any conman, crook or egotist to buy the club can not be a sensible way forward can it ?

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=KM Red;2306293]Maybe he has more sense and better judgement ?

It could be that Wycombe have debts too large for the supporters to cope with and their Trust has decided to bail out rather than oversee the demise of the club.They did inherit a club on the verge of collapse from previous private owners. Looking at who they have got as the new owner they are clearly very desperate.

I understand why some want private ownership but just inviting any conman, crook or egotist to buy the club can not be a sensible way forward can it ?[/QUOTE]

Scarred for life syndrome.

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=Birdy;2306295]Scarred for life syndrome.[/QUOTE]

I think it is called learning from experience. And I am not just talking about Wrexham AFC. Most EFL clubs have huge debts, are run in an unsustainable manner and if company law was followed would be shut down due to trading whilst insolvent.

[QUOTE=krux;2305461]Unless the club makes efforts to seek investors, or at least make it clear that they are open to investment and would welcome it, investors are not going to present themselves.

I sold my house this year, however I received zero offers before I put it on the market.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post
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Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=KM Red;2306293]Maybe he has more sense and better judgement ?

It could be that Wycombe have debts too large for the supporters to cope with and their Trust has decided to bail out rather than oversee the demise of the club.They did inherit a club on the verge of collapse from previous private owners. Looking at who they have got as the new owner they are clearly very desperate.

I understand why some want private ownership but just inviting any conman, crook or egotist to buy the club can not be a sensible way forward can it ?[/QUOTE]

Ahh this old chesnut...
Who said anything about conmen, crooks and egotiss!? Are those the words to describe every non fans-owned private chairman/owner?

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

This Christmas, after world peace, I am dreaming of an outside investor. The Trust have been brilliant, but we cannot go on with this regime much longer. The present system will probably keep us alive as we drift down the league system. With the fan base and traditions that we have, that is not good enough. Things must change!

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

the paranoia of many of our fans is what will keep the current status quo in place, it is understandable why some are apprehensive of private ownership but our best periods have been under private ownership, it was not all roses, no, but the best years this club ever saw, highs and lows, for a long time now we have been flat lining, mediocracy, but mediocracy in non league, we are now regarded as a non league outfit, this ownership model is in survival mode only, it is being run like a domestic economics exercise and not a viable business with a growth structure, the fans base has grown but not the speculation from those in charge, other teams that are ex league have come down, reorganised and made it back into the league while we linger in stagnation, the paranoia (understandable but now obsolete) is one of the causes of our mediocracy, we need a business man, or woman who is strong enough to guide a business to success, leave things as they are and this time next year we will be contemplating the prospect of another lost season in the wilderness, accept the obvious or decline/stagnate

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

What there forum is saying though...an interesting 4 pages so far:

[url]https://gasroom.org/discussion/5193/alternative-investment-story[/url]

Re: Wycombe changing from 100% fans owned
 

[QUOTE=TomWFC;2306328]Ahh this old chesnut...
Who said anything about conmen, crooks and egotiss!? Are those the words to describe every non fans-owned private chairman/owner?[/QUOTE]

I am afraid a large percentage would tick at least one of those boxes with the egotist one way out in front.

For arguments sake lets look at what criteria we would want from a private owner. Worth at least 50 million cash and prepared to put at least 5 million in to the club over an extended period. A Wrexham supporter who lives locally, does not have a problem ego and has a good knowledge of the football industry.

Only a few of the privately owned 92 league Clubs have a decent owner. For my money these would be Liverpool, Norwich, Middlesboro, Rochdale, Accrington and maybe Fleetwood and Bristol City. A lot of those are long term supporters of the club they own. Please feel free to add to the list.