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Old 8th October 2019, 12.29:59   #61-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

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Originally Posted by bolan View Post
My feelings also. If we win the next 2 home games what will they moan about then !!
That we are still in the Tunnocks caramel wafer cup?
Old 8th October 2019, 12.33:08   #62-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

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Originally Posted by Ooh aah Paskin View Post
That we are still in the Tunnocks caramel wafer cup?
Actually if keates gets us dumped out of that , I may change my view of him.
Old 8th October 2019, 12.44:31   #63-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

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Originally Posted by rayred View Post
RP has become a snake pit and home to an unbalanced discourse IMO.
Why the deep and bitter loathing of Keates? Hadnít he got us into a playoff position? Thatís why Walsall came calling. Ditto with Ricketts and Shrewsbury. How are these examples of constantly running a defective manager selection process. OK, you can quote the opaque BH selection and other blips but letís have some balance. And resorting to denigrating Dixie, just as another legend Arfon has been in the past on these pages, because they worked with the Board, is out of order in my book.

Barrow, Newell, Hughes....? I agree Ricketts was a good choice but depending on the version of events you follow, was not given free rein to bring in his own team which is not good. You sort of answer your first question about Keates when saying 'hadn't he got us into a play off position?' Yes he did, then left with 8 games to go. That is probably why posters have an issue. Haven't seen anyone denigrating Dixie, most feel sorry for him.
Re Keates, if anyone was offered a doubling/tripling of wage/salary, would they not take it. Turning down the opportunity to progress professionally and refusing the money would be irrational. The only thing which might make a difference would be family factors. Did the Cowleys turn down Lincoln, and then Huddersfield? Did any manager turn down such opportunities? Would we?
Fair Point, I agree it was too good an offer for him to turn down. But at that crucial stage, the board should be saying no to any approaches until after the season end.
I havenít got time to micromonitor what the Board does. And maybe I am missing something on the relationship between the Board and the Trust. However, I take the long view. What I know is that pre-2011, the Trust over a long period had the sense to raise and save half a million pounds in anticipation of a supportersí take-over. Without the Trustís foresight there would be no Club.

No-one is doubting this, or even questioning it. The issues with the 'current' board have nothing whatsoever to do with this IMO.

I know also that the Trust guided us through a hugely complex take-over and transition as a result of a collection of hugely competent individuals giving their time and range of expertise for free; and that since 2011, the club with the financial support of the Trust membership, has been put onto a viable and sustainable commercial footing. And this without the huge subsidies that the local Mr Bigs (some business men are genuine and caring of their clubs but there are many chancers) or the Class of 92. Those business men subsidies are simply not available to us. Look next door to Chester to see the counter scenario with both failed private and supporter ownership ownership.

The club has been put on a sustainable footing, and that is commendable. However, it has grown stagnant now it is clear we have gone as far as we can without any external investment. It is the apparent refusal to consider this move that is irking many people. And looking at the league as a whole, I would say there are far more trustworthy private owners out there than charlatans. No-one is saying accept the first offer that comes along, but just CONSIDER offers..

As for on the pitch this season, look at what happens when a more attacking approach coincides with two (GK, CF) out of three key players (GK, CF, CB) being long term injured.

I'm sorry, but you need more than three key players to be successful IMO. I would say at least 16.

I am one of these who donít like the abuse on here nor the foul-mouthed chanting from the terraces, at its worst when we had a thousand kids in for the Sutton game. Keep the vile one-liner abuse off-line

Totally agree on the vile and personal abuse. But protesting done well has its merits.
Just a few of my thoughts, to spark reasoned debate?
Old 8th October 2019, 14.30:29   #64-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayred View Post
RP has become a snake pit and home to an unbalanced discourse IMO.
Why the deep and bitter loathing of Keates? Hadnít he got us into a playoff position? Thatís why Walsall came calling. Ditto with Ricketts and Shrewsbury. How are these examples of constantly running a defective manager selection process. OK, you can quote the opaque BH selection and other blips but letís have some balance. And resorting to denigrating Dixie, just as another legend Arfon has been in the past on these pages, because they worked with the Board, is out of order in my book.

Re Keates, if anyone was offered a doubling/tripling of wage/salary, would they not take it. Turning down the opportunity to progress professionally and refusing the money would be irrational. The only thing which might make a difference would be family factors. Did the Cowleys turn down Lincoln, and then Huddersfield? Did any manager turn down such opportunities? Would we?
I havenít got time to micromonitor what the Board does. And maybe I am missing something on the relationship between the Board and the Trust. However, I take the long view. What I know is that pre-2011, the Trust over a long period had the sense to raise and save half a million pounds in anticipation of a supportersí take-over. Without the Trustís foresight there would be no Club.

I know also that the Trust guided us through a hugely complex take-over and transition as a result of a collection of hugely competent individuals giving their time and range of expertise for free; and that since 2011, the club with the financial support of the Trust membership, has been put onto a viable and sustainable commercial footing. And this without the huge subsidies that the local Mr Bigs (some business men are genuine and caring of their clubs but there are many chancers) or the Class of 92. Those business men subsidies are simply not available to us. Look next door to Chester to see the counter scenario with both failed private and supporter ownership ownership.
As for on the pitch this season, look at what happens when a more attacking approach coincides with two (GK, CF) out of three key players (GK, CF, CB) being long term injured.

I am one of these who donít like the abuse on here nor the foul-mouthed chanting from the terraces, at its worst when we had a thousand kids in for the Sutton game. Keep the vile one-liner abuse off-line.
He got us into a playoff position and left. He did not get us into the playoffs. He achieved nothing.

Ricketts is less of a snake than Keates. I can't think of another manager that left in the manner that Keates did and was welcomed back, let alone so shortly after leaving.

You quote all the mistakes as just being "other blips". There have been some crazy decisions from the club that haven't been acknowledged or explained by the board. The decisions that have left us where we are have just been met by spin and arrogance.

As for Keates leaving it was not a option to progress professionally. He only needs to look at the man that signed him for Wrexham to see that jumping ship without achieving a thing can kill your career. And that's what happened, his career was dead at this level and we're the only club without an ounce of self respect that will take him back.

Again we have another crazy comparison. Here's the managerial history of Danny Cowley:

Took Concord Rangers up 3 divisions and was loyal to them for 7 years

Took Braintree to 3rd in the league, their highest ever league finish and lost out in the playoffs, did not ditch them early despite interest from Lincoln, tried to finish the job

At Lincoln he won the title, got to the FA Cup Quarter Finals, won the EFL trophy at Wembley in Lincolns first ever appearance at Wembley, finished in the playoffs and then won them the league title to go into league 1

None of the clubs that Cowley managed payed for his degree, helped him study whilst also playing through the scheme the club put on, he didn't play any of the teams he managed for a long period of time, he didn't have first hand experience of the pain of being in the tinpot leagues they were in, the fans of his former clubs didn't hand over £100k because they believed in him so much, he always stook the season out with the clubs he managed, he always achieved things and then left. The club that gave him his first break in management he spent 7 years and 3 promotions at. Keates didn't even complete a full season here
Old 8th October 2019, 14.33:30   #65-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by northwalian dragon View Post
He got us into a playoff position and left. He did not get us into the playoffs. He achieved nothing.

Ricketts is less of a snake than Keates. I can't think of another manager that left in the manner that Keates did and was welcomed back, let alone so shortly after leaving.

You quote all the mistakes as just being "other blips". There have been some crazy decisions from the club that haven't been acknowledged or explained by the board. The decisions that have left us where we are have just been met by spin and arrogance.

As for Keates leaving it was not a option to progress professionally. He only needs to look at the man that signed him for Wrexham to see that jumping ship without achieving a thing can kill your career. And that's what happened, his career was dead at this level and we're the only club without an ounce of self respect that will take him back.

Again we have another crazy comparison. Here's the managerial history of Danny Cowley:

Took Concord Rangers up 3 divisions and was loyal to them for 7 years

Took Braintree to 3rd in the league, their highest ever league finish and lost out in the playoffs, did not ditch them early despite interest from Lincoln, tried to finish the job

At Lincoln he won the title, got to the FA Cup Quarter Finals, won the EFL trophy at Wembley in Lincolns first ever appearance at Wembley, finished in the playoffs and then won them the league title to go into league 1

None of the clubs that Cowley managed payed for his degree, helped him study whilst also playing through the scheme the club put on, he didn't play any of the teams he managed for a long period of time, he didn't have first hand experience of the pain of being in the tinpot leagues they were in, the fans of his former clubs didn't hand over £100k because they believed in him so much, he always stook the season out with the clubs he managed, he always achieved things and then left. The club that gave him his first break in management he spent 7 years and 3 promotions at. Keates didn't even complete a full season here
More myths busted.
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Old 8th October 2019, 14.42:21   #66-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Interesting to see new pro-board posters joining up!
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Old 8th October 2019, 14.53:29   #67-0 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fezbob View Post
Interesting to see new pro-board posters joining up!
Someoneís got to back Quay Red up. Poor bugger is all on his own.
Old 8th October 2019, 14.57:46   #68-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny_Old_Game View Post
Someoneís got to back Quay Red up. Poor bugger is all on his own.
To be fair, even QR is calling the board out on some decisions!
Old 8th October 2019, 15.09:03   #69-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooh aah Paskin View Post
To be fair, even QR is calling the board out on some decisions!
Must have missed that. Called the DSA debacle a 'clash of personalities'. Not sure why.
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Old 8th October 2019, 15.11:19   #70-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Keates Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny_Old_Game View Post
Someoneís got to back Quay Red up. Poor bugger is all on his own.
Maybe that's a good thing. No one to sway me either way.
Just trying to put a balanced view of things.
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