Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
You would expect board to be concerned sbout fans staying away and cancelling monthly DDs/ contributions.But following do not indicate this-
1.Refusal to acknowledge error made in appointing and length of contract given to Bryan Hughes.Its fans and Danny Ward monies which is being wasted- not their own investments. 2.The continuing January cover up following Barrow and Newell fiasco. 3.Seemingly most predictable appointment ever in Dean Keates with apparently claiming President led process, when he did not. 4.The DSA fiasco this week. Clearly PR/goodwill not considered important factors for running a fans owned,supposedly community football club. It's the fans who will suffer as will be less money for team budget which will potentially lead to a downward spiral on and off the pitch. Fans owned club ? |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
#WeAreOneTeam
|
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
#notinmyname
|
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
Nope, isn't their personal fortune being wasted, they'd care more if it was. I've a suspicion some put very little into it out of their own pockets.
|
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
This is the problem when the few can waste other peoples money... our money...
Just so long as they can keep power I wouldn't think they are concerned no. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
I wish to stress this is not personal but.......the utimate irony of recent poor decisions , particularly the DSA catastrophe , is that we WST members have NO democratic way of removing a single person from the Club board. That, by any Community Club principles , cannot be acceptable.
|
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=wafc1926;2305413]I wish to stress this is not personal but.......the utimate irony of recent poor decisions , particularly the DSA catastrophe , is that we WST members have NO democratic way of removing a single person from the Club board. That, by any Community Club principles , cannot be acceptable.[/QUOTE]
Then that must be on the agenda for the EGM. |
[QUOTE=wafc1926;2305413]I wish to stress this is not personal but.......the utimate irony of recent poor decisions , particularly the DSA catastrophe , is that we WST members have NO democratic way of removing a single person from the Club board. That, by any Community Club principles , cannot be acceptable.[/QUOTE]
That’s not correct, a director can be removed from their position by a proposal at an AGM or SGM. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305419]That’s not correct, a director can be removed from their position by a proposal at an AGM or SGM.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] Could they be co-opted back on? |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305419]That’s not correct, a director can be removed from their position by a proposal at an AGM or SGM.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] Apologies if I am wrong. Can you please explain under what circumstances we can remove them when we had no say in their installation as WAFC Directors in the first place? Makes no sense. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305419]That’s not correct, a director can be removed from their position by a proposal at an AGM or SGM.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] That’s Trust board members though. The WAFC board members weren’t voted in so how are they removed? The reality is that they have positioned themselves on this ‘2nd’ imaginary board themselves. As we saw in January they have the power and more power than WST. My opinion is the WST have become ‘lazy’ in running the club. There is no direction from the main board other than keeping finances in check. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
It has nothing to do with the WST or Wrexham AFC, it is standard company law. A shareholder (members in our case) proposes a motion to remove a company director, they then get another shareholder to second the motion. It then goes to a vote at an AGM or SGM and if successful then that director is removed from their position, it’s a pretty simple process in reality.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
It will probably have to end in the courts like FC United.
You can't run a football club with volunteers it's pathetic and amateurish. Power corrupts and both boards will do anything to stay in control. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305537]It has nothing to do with the WST or Wrexham AFC, it is standard company law. A shareholder (members in our case) proposes a motion to remove a company director, they then get another shareholder to second the motion. It then goes to a vote at an AGM or SGM and if successful then that director is removed from their position, it’s a pretty simple process in reality.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] WST members are not company shareholders in the normal sense. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
That’s why I put members in our case in brackets, I’m not going to go back and forth over it as that’s the process. Ask the WST Secretary and he will confirm it or ask a company law specialist and or any director of a company.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
For anyone that is interested, the process is described here.
[url]https://www.lblaw.co.uk/services-for-business/corporate-law-services/shareholders-agreements/removal-of-directors[/url] [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
I may be being dumb here but,
Can a person be a director of the Club Board if they have been voted off the Trust Board? Ie. Do you have to be on the Trust Board to be a Club Board member? Just wondering, because I believe some Trust board members are up for re-election next year (?) who coincidentally are also on the Club Board. Therefore, would losing Trust Board status automatically lose Club Board status? If so, that is one avenue. If not, what's the point? |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
Part of the problem has been that the same person can sit on the 2 boards. This leads to a lack of accountability. If a WAFC board member acts in a way that is not in the interests of the club (the club and not the status quo) then the WST should act on behalf of the club to address that problem. Clearly there is reason to believe that this isn't happening. Is the club serving the WST or is the WST doing what as members we are fully entitled to demand ? The WST are custodians of our club. The WAFC board should be accountable for driving the club forward on the field... not WST matters. An honest self appraisal is needed by those on the WST and WAFC boards if any good can come from where we find ourselves. I don't believe the part time input in key areas are in the best interests of the club. The waste of our budget over the years would maybe fund a person of vision that can see beyond what we have been delivered these last 8 years.
|
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305552]That’s why I put members in our case in brackets, I’m not going to go back and forth over it as that’s the process. Ask the WST Secretary and he will confirm it or ask a company law specialist and or any director of a company.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] This, in a nutshell, is why these threads rumble on and on with no tangible outcome. The reality is, most of the people who comment about removing the board or making changes have no idea what they’re talking about and it does little to inspire confidence that we could affect change where it is obviously needed. Even the EGM proposal was ill conceived and poorly executed. All it takes is a modicum of research beforehand and for people to follow the correct protocol but time after time the throwing your toys out of the pram approach seems to be favoured. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2305541]It will probably have to end in the courts like FC United.
You can't run a football club with volunteers it's pathetic and amateurish. Power corrupts and both boards will do anything to stay in control. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] Beginning to wonder what's actually more important to them . Wrexham FC, or them living their dreams out, running it with total control. They may of set off with good intentions, but I don't think they can now let go that power. They are certainly acting like the untouchables. I'd hoped from day one, fans owned would just be temporary, as its very limited. After all, this is football, and failure to be even a bit successful, will eventually bite you in the arse |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=BP Red;2305597]
Even the EGM proposal was ill conceived and poorly executed. All it takes is a modicum of research beforehand and for people to follow the correct protocol but time after time the throwing your toys out of the pram approach seems to be favoured.[/QUOTE] What correct protocol wasn't followed? How do you know what approach was followed? Did you really believe the first ever call for an EGM was going to be perfect? What did you expect, statements prepared by lawyers? At least they have tried is all I can say. Better than just talking about it on here and better than waiting for someone else to do it then just looking for anyway to criticise it and pull it apart. There are still loads of people who don't understand what the call for the EGM is, its been explained but many chose not to bother reading it. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=BP Red;2305597]
Even the EGM proposal was ill conceived and poorly executed. All it takes is a modicum of research beforehand and for people to follow the correct protocol but time after time the throwing your toys out of the pram approach seems to be favoured.[/QUOTE] To be honest I thought the call for the EGM has been well thought out and protocols followed? If i'm understanding this correctly, the call for signatures is simply the first step in following the procedure. Enough signatures received, the group or persons responsible can draw up their full proposal and then call for the EGM in the correct manner. I still can't see where protocol has been 'breached' so far? Someone can probably tell me... |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=Wreck Sam;2305570][B]Part of the problem has been that the same person can sit on the 2 boards. [/B]This leads to a lack of accountability. If a WAFC board member acts in a way that is not in the interests of the club (the club and not the status quo) then the WST should act on behalf of the club to address that problem. Clearly there is reason to believe that this isn't happening. Is the club serving the WST or is the WST doing what as members we are fully entitled to demand ? The WST are custodians of our club. The WAFC board should be accountable for driving the club forward on the field... not WST matters. An honest self appraisal is needed by those on the WST and WAFC boards if any good can come from where we find ourselves. I don't believe the part time input in key areas are in the best interests of the club. The waste of our budget over the years would maybe fund a person of vision that can see beyond what we have been delivered these last 8 years.[/QUOTE]
This. There should only be one person who is on both boards - and their purpose on the WST board should be to hold the FC board to account. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=Ooh aah Paskin;2305605]To be honest I thought the call for the EGM has been well thought out and protocols followed?
If i'm understanding this correctly, the call for signatures is simply the first step in following the procedure. Enough signatures received, the group or persons responsible can draw up their full proposal and then call for the EGM in the correct manner. I still can't see where protocol has been 'breached' so far? Someone can probably tell me...[/QUOTE] The correct way would’ve been to compile the motions before asking for support. Instead it led to pages and pages of posts, some useful, most not. Nothing has been breached because nothing has been submitted. That’s the point, time and time again we get half arsed ideas on here with no proper resolution. Yes, good on someone for trying to change something, but to the outsider reading this or someone from the club, it just makes us look as clueless as them. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=BP Red;2305614]The correct way would’ve been to compile the motions before asking for support. Instead it led to pages and pages of posts, some useful, most not.
Nothing has been breached because nothing has been submitted. That’s the point, time and time again we get half arsed ideas on here with no proper resolution. Yes, good on someone for trying to change something, but to the outsider reading this or someone from the club, it just makes us look as clueless as them.[/QUOTE] Everyone knows best when armed with hindsight. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2305541]You can't run a football club with volunteers it's pathetic and amateurish.
Power corrupts and both boards will do anything to stay in control. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] I agree totally. People in paid positions also need to be more accountable. Stadium Manager is an obvious person to point the finger at. Think having a lifespan is also important. The WST has had different people in charge at different times to do different jobs. For me a good example is P.Salmon who does all of the maintenance and will have saved us a ridiculous amount of money, I am certain. We need to be in a position where we are not relying on that. It is not sustainable. And he's someone I know little about as a fan but have been impressed by and absolutely appreciate he will have saved us huge amounts of money over the years. He SHOULD be paid for those services and if we can't afford it then we need to know. For the record, he is someone I have no issue with whatsoever being on the club board. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=Rk11;2305624]I agree totally. People in paid positions also need to be more accountable. Stadium Manager is an obvious person to point the finger at.
Think having a lifespan is also important. The WST has had different people in charge at different times to do different jobs. For me a good example is P.Salmon who does all of the maintenance and will have saved us a ridiculous amount of money, I am certain. We need to be in a position where we are not relying on that. It is not sustainable. And he's someone I know little about as a fan but have been impressed by and absolutely appreciate he will have saved us huge amounts of money over the years. He SHOULD be paid for those services and if we can't afford it then we need to know. For the record, he is someone I have no issue with whatsoever being on the club board.[/QUOTE] Agree with this. Unfortunately the current system will support the current level of where we are at if all goes well or National North if the waste and bad decision making continues. 8 years of decline is all the evidence we need. It all keeps coming back to having the vision of success defined. By now we should be relying less on volunteers for some roles. I still believe a healthy volunteer base in some areas can do nothing but enhance the club btw. This mindset that part time will be ok has been a driver for the waste of a competitive budget generated by our awesome support. That same support saved the club originally with excellent initiatives driven by RP. It is up to those on the boards currently to be honest about what they are contributing. Yes we can carry on at 5th tier where the exciting times will be escaping 6th tier... or we can have a vision that welcomes skill sets to reverse our decline and deliver the success that can be measured on the field. Im sure at least some currently sitting on the boards would welcome that approach but maybe not all. There is a big sea of opportunity out there but maybe the small pool we are currently in suits some ? |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=Ooh aah Paskin;2305569]I may be being dumb here but,
Can a person be a director of the Club Board if they have been voted off the Trust Board? Ie. Do you have to be on the Trust Board to be a Club Board member? Just wondering, because I believe some Trust board members are up for re-election next year (?) who coincidentally are also on the Club Board. Therefore, would losing Trust Board status automatically lose Club Board status? If so, that is one avenue. If not, what's the point?[/QUOTE] A trust board member can be voted off at an AGM or EGM. The constitution requires that a majority of the football club board are from the WST board to ensure that decisions are made in line with trust policy. I f a trust board member was deselected then, theoretically he could be co opted onto the FC board but even the most ardent Trust board member would be hard pressed to go against the wishes of a decision made at an EGM. Sensible change needs to be thought through and alternative proposals would need to gain the members support, A wholesale cull is not the answer, considered change is. personally think the Keates appointment was lazy and the DSA decision was petulant. Doesn't anyone pick up a phone and talk these days or is it all down to text and 'E' Mail. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2305612]This.
There should only be one person who is on both boards - and their purpose on the WST board should be to hold the FC board to account.[/QUOTE] Then you need a motion to change the constitution and that would require a 75% approval. Currently the constitution allows for a majority representation from the WST. |
[QUOTE=Wrexham's Patrick Bateman;2305599]Beginning to wonder what's actually more important to them
. Wrexham FC, or them living their dreams out, running it with total control. They may of set off with good intentions, but I don't think they can now let go that power. They are certainly acting like the untouchables. I'd hoped from day one, fans owned would just be temporary, as its very limited. After all, this is football, and failure to be even a bit successful, will eventually bite you in the arse[/QUOTE] I agree with your post in it's entirety [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
Not sure which thread to post this in and didn't want to start yet another new one.
My take on things: Keates - objectively sensible appointment but may have wished to look elsewhere as clear he was going to be divisive Davies - not impressed by him when he was manager but if you appoint Keates you have to let him work with who he feels best. Good that he is FT not PT. DSA - All a bit of a sorry episode, wish they'd have resolved it in a non-public way. Club seem more at fault from what I've read but DSA could have done things to de-escalate. Press conference - agree it was all a bit weird and uncomfortable. Not good Dixie verbally contradicted the statement and that Keates had to announce Flynn departure and Davies arrival. That's my views out of the way, how how do we constructively resolve this mess? Getting more and more angry at the board and each other won't help our club flourish. Other than resign/sack Keates immediately what can the board realistically start doing to build bridges? I am happy to email them with a summary of your suggestions but like Brexit the toxic polarised round and round debate and vitriol is depressing and unhelpful. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
The WST surely only need 1 person to sit on the WAFC board to keep an eye on things. If that person is seen to be not keeping an eye then it was the wrong appointment. People at board level have to take responsibility for the roles they were appointed for. Why does it need the majority to be from the WST board ? No point in having a separate WAFC board is there. If 5th tier is the exciting times then the WST need to come clean.
|
[QUOTE=Rk11;2305624]I agree totally. People in paid positions also need to be more accountable. Stadium Manager is an obvious person to point the finger at.
Think having a lifespan is also important. The WST has had different people in charge at different times to do different jobs. For me a good example is P.Salmon who does all of the maintenance and will have saved us a ridiculous amount of money, I am certain. We need to be in a position where we are not relying on that. It is not sustainable. And he's someone I know little about as a fan but have been impressed by and absolutely appreciate he will have saved us huge amounts of money over the years. He SHOULD be paid for those services and if we can't afford it then we need to know. For the record, he is someone I have no issue with whatsoever being on the club board.[/QUOTE] Good post -- For me the writing was on the wall when Bircham and Horne left although reason given was to concentrate on their new Fat Boar business I think that was a smokescreen regarding bigger problems and these 2 have not been replaced. We have taken back a failed manager and his staff.. Look at the difference between him and Ricketts who is now doing well at Shrewsbury. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
As I recall, there was a motion at a recent AGM to make AFC Board members elected by the members. This was defeated.
|
[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305657]Then you need a motion to change the constitution and that would require a 75% approval.
Currently the constitution allows for a majority representation from the WST.[/QUOTE] This is incorrect, a two thirds majority is required in order to change the constitution. [size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size] |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305679]This is incorrect, a two thirds majority is required in order to change the constitution.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] I would refer you to the WST rules. Section 50.1.1Any resolution to change the Society's rules and Section 51. a 75% majority is required as it's considered and Extraordinary resolution. Also to ensure that it's clear - section 28.3 requires a minimum of 3 members of the trust board to be nominated for the club board. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=LL11 2AH;2305419]That’s not correct, a director can be removed from their position by a proposal at an AGM or SGM.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE] Which is probably why they dont want any meetings to happen |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=Quay Red;2305822]I would refer you to the WST rules.
Section 50.1.1Any resolution to change the Society's rules and Section 51. a 75% majority is required as it's considered and Extraordinary resolution. Also to ensure that it's clear - section 28.3 requires a minimum of 3 members of the trust board to be nominated for the club board.[/QUOTE] Nominated but not appointed. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=-luke;2305828]Which is probably why they dont want any meetings to happen[/QUOTE]
Of course they can be removed from the Trust Board and therefore from the club board. Any resolution would have to ensure that the members, if deselected could not be seconded onto the club board. not sure how that fits in with the rules though. |
Re: Are the board concerned about losing fans and money ?
[QUOTE=-luke;2305829]Nominated but not appointed.[/QUOTE]
In this case the difference being?:confused: |
All times are WMT (Wrexham Mean Time). For non-town viewers the time now is 19.34:28. |
Powered by vBulletin® & Wrex the Dragons fiery breath