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Old 6th November 2019, 07.21:26   #11-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Take your point Mike, but does that mean we are condemned to our present ownership system for ever? Itís a bit like going through a painful divorce. You can either sit in a cave and get depressed about your previous choice of partner, or get out there and get back on the horse. Doing nothing, as my sales manager says, means that everyone else will overtake us and we will disappear. Not an option for me!
Old 6th November 2019, 10.06:14   #12-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmike View Post
[/B]
I also read a very good article in "The Times" on this subject a couple of months ago. It would of course be wonderful to get a jack walker who loved Blackburn FC and funded them to the title. However not forgetting the nightmare with our last owner we only have to look at Chester's experience. As we all know they had to fold and start again. I seem to remember the thrust of the article I read was that passing the "fit and proper person test" does not ensure that a "sugar daddy" has the best interests of the club at heart. A Jack Walker would be awesome but we have to be very careful what we wish for.
There's far more clubs privately/hybrid owned than there will even be Jack Walkers.

Chester is probably not the best example to use. Yes they had to fold and reform (an option favoured by some on the club/WST when the fans were putting money-up to cover the bond I might add) but in recent history they were in dire straights under fan ownership too.
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Old 6th November 2019, 10.47:32   #13-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Why is outside investment seen as such a taboo subject? I know we came very close to oblivion under Hamilton and have been screwed over in other ways by Moss but this is not a reason in itself to shun any interest.
If the correct checks are done then there should be no cause for concern. Hamilton came in as a result of Pryce Griffiths selling up, Moss came in because we were desperate for a saviour after the Hamilton fiasco. In either case I doubt the Trust had a lot of scope to check these people out (if even the trust existed pre Hamilton).
Now they are able to utilise the tools available to them to ensure as best as they can that the right people are included into the club.
Yes, there is no guarantee that it would work but we are clearly stagnating and struggling under the current ownership.

We need to look to the future and other forms of investment and structure. Yes, exercise some caution but don't disregard it entirely.
Old 6th November 2019, 11.04:19   #14-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by LlayDragon View Post
There's far more clubs privately/hybrid owned than there will even be Jack Walkers.

Chester is probably not the best example to use. Yes they had to fold and reform (an option favoured by some on the club/WST when the fans were putting money-up to cover the bond I might add) but in recent history they were in dire straights under fan ownership too.
Yes - Chesterís issues under fan ownership surely suggest that itís really vital NOT to just assume that with fans in charge everything will be ok!
Old 6th November 2019, 11.04:26   #15-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooh aah Paskin View Post
Why is outside investment seen as such a taboo subject? I know we came very close to oblivion under Hamilton and have been screwed over in other ways by Moss but this is not a reason in itself to shun any interest.
If the correct checks are done then there should be no cause for concern. Hamilton came in as a result of Pryce Griffiths selling up, Moss came in because we were desperate for a saviour after the Hamilton fiasco. In either case I doubt the Trust had a lot of scope to check these people out (if even the trust existed pre Hamilton).
Now they are able to utilise the tools available to them to ensure as best as they can that the right people are included into the club.
Yes, there is no guarantee that it would work but we are clearly stagnating and struggling under the current ownership.

We need to look to the future and other forms of investment and structure. Yes, exercise some caution but don't disregard it entirely.
I agree with this. We know now that 5th tier is the best we can achieve under what we have with the danger of that being 6th tier allowing for law of averages downturns. I do get that the WST leadership will always put a positive spin on our reality (as per the ridiculous points tally boast) but maybe the wider fanbase is now questioning if what we have is enough. Maybe for the WST leadership it is ?
Old 6th November 2019, 11.31:03   #16-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

to be able to admit to mistakes is a very honourable thing, to say "i tried, i gave it my all but it just did not work" shows far more integrity than to hide unfavourable outcomes or paste it over with bloody well annoying buzzwords, to admit that one needs help, can be seen as failure, personnally i see the ability to recognise ones own abilities as very sensible and totally honourable, perhaps the time has come for many people to realise there is a better way and to do the honourable thing
Old 6th November 2019, 12.06:39   #17-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooh aah Paskin View Post
Why is outside investment seen as such a taboo subject? I know we came very close to oblivion under Hamilton and have been screwed over in other ways by Moss but this is not a reason in itself to shun any interest.
If the correct checks are done then there should be no cause for concern. Hamilton came in as a result of Pryce Griffiths selling up, Moss came in because we were desperate for a saviour after the Hamilton fiasco. In either case I doubt the Trust had a lot of scope to check these people out (if even the trust existed pre Hamilton).
Now they are able to utilise the tools available to them to ensure as best as they can that the right people are included into the club.
Yes, there is no guarantee that it would work but we are clearly stagnating and struggling under the current ownership.

We need to look to the future and other forms of investment and structure. Yes, exercise some caution but don't disregard it entirely.
There is an inherent risk in looking outside - you lose some control. Any of us in our right minds should recognise the dangers in that because of our past experience as well as the recent experience of teams like Bury.

So you lose some control but there's still no guarantee you get promoted. People on here carry on that if we had more money we'd get promoted. that's nonsense (unless you're spending Salford amounts of money) look at AFC Fylde.

I await the usual "happy clapper" nonsense from the usual crowd. I'm not happy with how we are doing, however I don't believe the issue is fundamentally fan ownership - the issue is some of the people we have on our board. Over the past 12 months, they've made two shocking decisions on managers that have cost us promotion. I've got no doubt that if Ricketts had remained we'd have gone up as champions. (we only missed out by 5 points even though we didn't win a game in January).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willywill View Post
Take your point Mike, but does that mean we are condemned to our present ownership system for ever? Itís a bit like going through a painful divorce. You can either sit in a cave and get depressed about your previous choice of partner, or get out there and get back on the horse. Doing nothing, as my sales manager says, means that everyone else will overtake us and we will disappear. Not an option for me!
The present ownership system is not the issue.

The personnel in the present ownership system? Absolutely.
Old 6th November 2019, 13.44:09   #18-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiffred View Post
There is an inherent risk in looking outside - you lose some control. Any of us in our right minds should recognise the dangers in that because of our past experience as well as the recent experience of teams like Bury.

So you lose some control but there's still no guarantee you get promoted. People on here carry on that if we had more money we'd get promoted. that's nonsense (unless you're spending Salford amounts of money) look at AFC Fylde.

I await the usual "happy clapper" nonsense from the usual crowd. I'm not happy with how we are doing, however I don't believe the issue is fundamentally fan ownership - the issue is some of the people we have on our board. Over the past 12 months, they've made two shocking decisions on managers that have cost us promotion. I've got no doubt that if Ricketts had remained we'd have gone up as champions. (we only missed out by 5 points even though we didn't win a game in January).



The present ownership system is not the issue.

The personnel in the present ownership system? Absolutely.
Tend to agree with this. Think that a permanent chairperson is required to oversee all aspects of the club.
Would also like to see the board increased by at least 2 members and have one of those elected from the wider fan base.
Old 6th November 2019, 16.54:26   #19-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Tend to agree with this. Think that a permanent chairperson is required to oversee all aspects of the club.
Would also like to see the board increased by at least 2 members and have one of those elected from the wider fan base.
Agree to an extent QR.

There should certainly be a non-WST element on the board as well as appropriately-skilled `non-fans' to bring a dispassionate viewpoint.

Candidates should also be required to disclose any connections to existing board members, either personal or business-related.
Old 7th November 2019, 07.22:07   #20-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Signs of the Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Tend to agree with this. Think that a permanent chairperson is required to oversee all aspects of the club.
Would also like to see the board increased by at least 2 members and have one of those elected from the wider fan base.
Would like to see a strategy and plan from the WAFC board as well. There also needs to be minutes of meetings as they just seem to operate without any control.

Where is the accountability to the WST and the fan base. At the moment they have no accountability.
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Last edited by pagl; 7th November 2019 at 07.25:07..
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