Build the budget

[Prodigal Dragon]

Originally Posted by davewilli

It's sometimes easy in hindsight to see how things went wrong but equally it can be seen how things fell into place and success was gained. Our loyalty in the past has proved our best formula, similar to Utd sticking with Ferguson and Everton with Kendall.

DW, I am all for giving folk a chance, and this included Keates and the Board.

However, regardless how I look at things under his second term in charge, I fail to see sufficient improvement and tactical nous required to turn a very poor team into an average team; one that could pull away from the drop zone. Yes, he brought in some better players, but this is negated by his negative, one-dimensional tactics and team selection.

The thought of watching his terrible style of football next season leaves me cold. Like you, I am an avid fan who would much rather go to a game than do almost anything else. If he has extinguished my enthusiasm, it's little wonder that so many other fans want his blood.

Keates has another season on his contract, and we now certainly have no more cash to pay-off another manager and assistant, so we will inevitably have him at the helm.

Short of a miracle, I do not see how we can extricate ourselves from the mess created by a Board that has seemingly run out of ideas, and seem able to alienate a large proportion of the fan-base without even trying!

We want and need success. I appreciate there are no guarantees we will ever achieve this, but I would at least like us to have a viable plan that involves more than just giving a failed manager more time and valuable resources.

[northwalian dragon]

Originally Posted by davewilli

That needs to stop, in my opinion is the reason we are where we are and to continue will almost certainly see us continue to fail.

All I'm saying is give Keates a chance, if we had gone down then he would deserve the sack and provided he gets a decent budget next term a minimum requirement would be top 7.

He seems to have the backing of the senior players and I'm sure will have an idea of his squad for next term with targets he wants to bring in. I would much rather go with that then,rip Italy up again and throw the squad into further turmoil, especially in the current climate.

But again it comes down to the principle being right but the man being wrong.

Keates isn't an experienced manager that you can put your trust in. He has had no success. His career as a manager was dead at this level until we stupidly took him back.

I'm all for giving a manager time but it has to be the right manager. There were a few on here calling for Bryan Hughes to be given more time. It's glaringly obvious that Keates isn't good enough for where we want to be. Some fans want to put blind faith in him and that would be fair enough except for that fact he's not deserving of blind faith.

The racecourse is a library, crows are down massively, the passion is gone and the apathy is high. Is that a foundation for success?

He hasn't shown he is capable of managing at this level let alone being able to gain promotion from it. One thing Keates does have going for him is a bizarre way of getting acclaim for doing nothing.

Came in and got a worse points per game than the Gary Mills team yet is credited with saving us from relegation (When he took over we were 14th and 10 points clear of relegation, at the end of the season we were 8 points clear)

in 2017/18 started pretty results wish although there were games that Wrexham were booed off after winning! We soon got found out winning 4 games out of Keates' last 15 before he jumped ship.

Walsall was hilariously bad. A pretty decent start in August and then found out again. Out of his last 21 games in charge he lost 15 and drew 3 then got sacked!

Now he's back here, dragged us down to the rock bottom of the league playing dire football and we're only just surviving by a pandemic that has shut down the season.


I'm all for giving a manager 3 years, but really? This manager? You want the next three years to be filled with mediocrity, anger, apathy and not meeting our goals?

[davewilli]

I'm not saying 3 years, as we have an expectancy to be challenging every season (although contracts these days don't seem that watertight). Every manager deserves a couple of windows to put their stamp on things. He has had the benefit of seeing what he has got and had time to start planning, like he did last time to target players like Pearson, who can help turn things around and to sack him now would mean we go backwards yet again for the umpteenth time. New manager, new ideas, new players and we know at our level there are far more experiments than certainties.

[Vorporix]

I am not happy with decisions made by the board or the way they or the WST have communicated with the supporters in recent times. it has been a mixture of the odd not very well hidden dig and spin.

I am not happy with the current set up - club board members on the WST board - it reminds me of the Kremlin and certainly does not appear to be democratic or accountable to me.

I am not happy with the appointment of Keates - he decided to leave us at a really bad point. That was his decision but to take him back when he had failed at Walsall, against the wishes of many supporters, as the board would have known, was a crass decision in my humble opinion.

That said, I will not be claiming back anything (I fully understand why others will try), will buy my season ticket as soon as it is available and do my normal sponsorships.

Hopefully the club will still be here when we and the board have all gone......

[northwalian dragon]

Originally Posted by davewilli

I'm not saying 3 years, as we have an expectancy to be challenging every season (although contracts these days don't seem that watertight). Every manager deserves a couple of windows to put their stamp on things. He has had the benefit of seeing what he has got and had time to start planning, like he did last time to target players like Pearson, who can help turn things around and to sack him now would mean we go backwards yet again for the umpteenth time. New manager, new ideas, new players and we know at our level there are far more experiments than certainties.

Why does it mean that we will go backwards? Under Keates it was impossible to go any further backwards when we hit the bottom of the league. The apathy, atmosphere, passion and style of play could hardly get any worse.

What happens if we stick with Keates and he has a poor start, sacked in September and yet another season written off? He's already under a lot of pressure and taking tactical advice from board members, the fans are already rightfully on his back and want him gone, he gets no honeymoon period or slack from us. Change of board, management, coaches and players will at the very least guarantee some unity and a bit of hope for our fanbase.

The biggest asset we have is our passionate fans. We're the courageous little club that used to stick its chest out with immense pride and have a go at any one. Porto, Newcastle, Arsenal we don't care who you are we'll punch above our weight. Look at who we are now, sticking with what we have out of fear of it getting worse. We're a scared little team hiding in the corner and not prepared to fight back to where we should be. The heart and soul of the club has been diminishing for years, little by little, season by season, a little less pride in the shirt over and over. To stick with what we have is to continue to have no pride in ourselves.

[davewilli]

Granted history is only part of the picture, but every time we have twisted it has never worked out, when we have stuck it has led to promotions, the only exceptions John Neal coming in and finishing the good work of Alvan Williams in 69 then Arfon building on the good work of John Neal in 78.

[Haruki]

Originally Posted by davewilli

Don't be so sure!

It was said a thousand times in Flynnie's first seasons, but that stability and loyalty shown paid dividends. How many impatient chairmen have acted too soon and lived to regret it.

I agree with the principle of stability in business but you seek to be advocating stability for the sake of it. What is wrong than changing is stabilising around the wrong option
Keates is clearly the wrong option

[Welsh Kiwi]

Originally Posted by northwalian dragon

The biggest asset we have is our passionate fans. We're the courageous little club that used to stick its chest out with immense pride and have a go at any one. Porto, Newcastle, Arsenal we don't care who you are we'll punch above our weight. Look at who we are now, sticking with what we have out of fear of it getting worse. We're a scared little team hiding in the corner and not prepared to fight back to where we should be. The heart and soul of the club has been diminishing for years, little by little, season by season, a little less pride in the shirt over and over. To stick with what we have is to continue to have no pride in ourselves.

Apologies Northwalian dragon for extracting a paragraph of you post, but this really resonates with me.

I actually think the passion was reciprocal between the fans and the players when we were as a club courageous, as you describe above. We had leaders in the fan base. We had leaders in the boardroom and we had leaders out on the pitch. We had an outstanding groundsman leader Jonny and an outstanding leader of commercial bingo revenue Reg We even had an outstanding leader of tea making. Mrs D.

Three or four years ago I was in a restaurant down in London. It was actually very close to a pub where I had met up with a leader of the DSA and our mutual friend Neil Dobie. Neil was a leader of altruistic hearts.

As I looked across the restaurant I noticed someone who used to be a leader for us out on the pitch. A man who took no prisoners. A man who played for us in our championship years and who had played for Wales and Birmingham and Arsenal. I felt an immediate warm glow of happiness. I hadn't seen him for many, many years and he looked just the same. A big man, physically strong.

He was with his wife Yvonne. When he stood up to go the gents I went over to his wife and said "hello is that John Roberts with you?" She laughed and said yes. She didn't recognise me as it had been about 40 years. Then when I told her my name, it all came back to her.

I had been friends with her and John's two kids. We were similar ages though I was a bit older. We used to hang out together down in the players area, outside the dressing room, waiting to get the autographs of all the amazing players on both sides of the tunnel. We had autograph books. She would drop me off in the car on the way home after the match.

I also got autographs with Reg's son Jamie who I was convinced was going to play for Wales. He did, at least through all the youth rankings. Around the same time as Gary Speed. Jamie also played for Wrexham once. On his debut Jamies dad Reg came running up the stairs. The look of pride on his face was immense, to see Jamie, his own son coming on as a sub. I was nearly in tears myself.

Jamie tore up the pitch and had a one on one with the goalie. I was praying for him to smash it into the back of the net. He had done did it so many times when I played on the wing alongside him for Borras Park Albion. Thats when Marc Jones wasn't smashing them in himself. If we had payed with two footballs we would have won 20-0 instead of 10-0. They were both incredible footballers. I never played with anyone better. Ady Roberts, Simon Harrop, Steve O'shaugnessey and Chris Armstrong aside. But Chris played in goal back then, at school.

Jamie drew back his right leg and got right over the ball and scuffed the grass, taking the weight out of his shot and the ball went straight into the keepers arms. It didn't burst the net as I was expecting it to. I was absolutely gutted for him, for Reg and even for myself.

John came back out from the gents and It was great to see him. He was still massive, he always was in my eyes. A bit like Eddie May. Another huge leader of men. A colossus in defence. While King Billy was a colossus in attack. I was very sad when both Eddie and John passed away. Very sad for Yvonne and his kids because they obviously loved him dearly.

His youngest son Matthew is a fitness guru. He is another leader. A leader of personal fitness instructors. He is so good that even David Cameron hired him while prime minister. Personally David Cameron is not my sort of political leader. He was responsible for Brexit which is why my own son ended up moving to another country in Amsterdam, which is why I am now in New Zealand, but I recognise why DC would have wanted to hire the son of John Roberts. When he was leading the country.

The weird bit was when I was telling my son the story he said "oh yeah dad Matthews daughter" is in my history class at school. I was pretty dumfounded. He had never told me that.

My son knows more about wrexham afc than I tell him. I asked him how he was finding out so much about the club and he said "I follow bootlegger dad. All my mates do and none of us support Wrexham except me."


Love is the answer.

[Corner Flag]

Originally Posted by Welsh Kiwi

Apologies Northwalian dragon for extracting a paragraph of you post, but this really resonates with me.

I actually think the passion was reciprocal between the fans and the players when we were as a club courageous, as you describe above. We had leaders in the fan base. We had leaders in the boardroom and we had leaders out on the pitch. We had an outstanding groundsman leader Jonny and an outstanding leader of commercial bingo revenue Reg We even had an outstanding leader of tea making. Mrs D.

Three or four years ago I was in a restaurant down in London. It was actually very close to a pub where I had met up with a leader of the DSA and our mutual friend Neil Dobie. Neil was a leader of altruistic hearts.

As I looked across the restaurant I noticed someone who used to be a leader for us out on the pitch. A man who took no prisoners. A man who played for us in our championship years and who had played for Wales and Birmingham and Arsenal. I felt an immediate warm glow of happiness. I hadn't seen him for many, many years and he looked just the same. A big man, physically strong.

He was with his wife Yvonne. When he stood up to go the gents I went over to his wife and said "hello is that John Roberts with you?" She laughed and said yes. She didn't recognise me as it had been about 40 years. Then when I told her my name, it all came back to her.

I had been friends with her and John's two kids. We were similar ages though I was a bit older. We used to hang out together down in the players area, outside the dressing room, waiting to get the autographs of all the amazing players on both sides of the tunnel. We had autograph books. She would drop me off in the car on the way home after the match.

I also got autographs with Reg's son Jamie who I was convinced was going to play for Wales. He did, at least through all the youth rankings. Around the same time as Gary Speed. Jamie also played for Wrexham once. On his debut Jamies dad Reg came running up the stairs. The look of pride on his face was immense, to see Jamie, his own son coming on as a sub. I was nearly in tears myself.

Jamie tore up the pitch and had a one on one with the goalie. I was praying for him to smash it into the back of the net. He had done did it so many times when I played on the wing alongside him for Borras Park Albion. Thats when Marc Jones wasn't smashing them in himself. If we had payed with two footballs we would have won 20-0 instead of 10-0. They were both incredible footballers. I never played with anyone better. Ady Roberts, Simon Harrop, Steve O'shaugnessey and Chris Armstrong aside. But Chris played in goal back then, at school.

Jamie drew back his right leg and got right over the ball and scuffed the grass, taking the weight out of his shot and the ball went straight into the keepers arms. It didn't burst the net as I was expecting it to. I was absolutely gutted for him, for Reg and even for myself.

John came back out from the gents and It was great to see him. He was still massive, he always was in my eyes. A bit like Eddie May. Another huge leader of men. A colossus in defence. While King Billy was a colossus in attack. I was very sad when both Eddie and John passed away. Very sad for Yvonne and his kids because they obviously loved him dearly.

His youngest son Matthew is a fitness guru. He is another leader. A leader of personal fitness instructors. He is so good that even David Cameron hired him while prime minister. Personally David Cameron is not my sort of political leader. He was responsible for Brexit which is why my own son ended up moving to another country in Amsterdam, which is why I am now in New Zealand, but I recognise why DC would have wanted to hire the son of John Roberts. When he was leading the country.

The weird bit was when I was telling my son the story he said "oh yeah dad Matthews daughter" is in my history class at school. I was pretty dumfounded. He had never told me that.

My son knows more about wrexham afc than I tell him. I asked him how he was finding out so much about the club and he said "I follow bootlegger dad. All my mates do and none of us support Wrexham except me."


Love is the answer.

A remainer that left for New Zealand because his son went to live in Amsterdam , that makes no sense .