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Old 8th April 2020, 12.52:26   #19-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haruki View Post
Ask yourself why there was a members vote on taking on the Racecourse lease but we haven't been consulted on whether to take on the training ground.
It seems to me that we only get to vote if the board are confident we would vote for their preferred option.
Fair point but we no longer expect to have a debate on the clubs requirements as the club board and WST elected board seem to have developed a closed shop approach to business.
There were alternatives even prior to the nine acre move, including a financial package of support. Shame really but lets hope it all turns out ok.
Old 8th April 2020, 14.28:52   #20-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

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Originally Posted by Prodigal Dragon View Post
Previously, the FAW said we couldn't use Colliers' Parc because it was already being used by other teams/companies. It is worth asking the question again. If it's still no, then we need to find an alternative.
.
what other teams/companies are using it at 10am on a tuesday morning?

we are literally the only game (team) in town!
Old 8th April 2020, 15.01:52   #21-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

It is scandalous that The FA of Wales will not allow WFC to train at Colliers Park for a reasonable amount of money. I pass the place most days and was wondering why we did not train there. Thanks for this very interesting discussion.
Old 8th April 2020, 15.05:41   #22-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

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Originally Posted by Lord Derfyl Cadarn View Post
It is scandalous that The FA of Wales will not allow WFC to train at Colliers Park for a reasonable amount of money. I pass the place most days and was wondering why we did not train there. Thanks for this very interesting discussion.
We don't know that they won't let us, its available to hire to the public even
Old 8th April 2020, 15.29:39   #23-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

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Originally Posted by Prodigal Dragon View Post
I think it could be adequate.

The first team doesn't train all day and every day -- although some seem to think they should -- so it would have the capacity if the training was scheduled properly.

The University all-weather pitch was closed in preparation for it to be dug up and converted into a car-park. They may have other pitches. However, the university will be strapped for cash, especially as their planning permission for other developments was withheld.

Calling the proposed new training facility a 'vanity project' is hype, designed to provoke a negative response.

There is a need for a new training ground; it is therefore right to question if this one is the best available and also still affordable.

As for the right to vote, the Board seem able to move the goalposts as they see fit. The WST needs to supervise them better, and act on its remit of involving the fans. However, I can see why the Board resist opening up all decisions to the fans: they simply fear that every proposal -- regardless of their merit -- will be rejected simply because they have proposed it.

Fundamentally, we have a breakdown in trust between the WST/Board and a significant proportion of WST members, and fans in general. This is the crux of our problems.
Whilst I agree on most of your post PD a few points if you don't mind.
1,with regard to a previous poster in this thread about using the Uni facilities. I think the all weather pitch you're referring to is the one closest to Racecourse. I believe they have developed one on another bit of the campus. If the University are strapped for cash then surely us paying to use their facilities would be beneficial to both parties.
2, I think NWD has hit the nail on the head in his post further down the thread. We are a community club but it only seems like we as fans are consulted on things that "they the WST" think of and we'll approve of in a vote.
3, it is a vanity project for them they want a legacy. Its also short termism to.
4, you're absolutely right about there being a lack of trust between us and WST. All we as fans want is openness, clarity and good communication to the fans

P. S. Oh and a half decent team to watch every other week 😉
Old 8th April 2020, 15.30:46   #24-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

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Originally Posted by northwalian dragon View Post
Building the new training ground on the Groves is bizarre. WHY IS IT BIZARRE?

It's not well located, in the middle of a busy part of town. Close to lots of housing, lacking any real privacy or security. Slight paranoia!


Colliers Park was built in an ideal location. Straight off the bypass making it easy for everyone to get in and out, simple instructions to find etc. It's in a nice spot in Gresford too, the Beeches and Pant-yr-Ochain close by to take potential signings to discuss things. What message are we sending to potential players coming in at the Groves? Battle through traffic to our two pitches next to this massive derelict crumbling building, it's not at all a metaphor for our club. Colliers' Parc belongs to the FAW/Glyndwr, and they don't want us there permanently, unless they have changed their minds. If we do hire it, what would be the costs compared to developing a separate set-up?

What will the Groves eventually become? Who is going to be sharing our space and constantly overlooking the pitches? Are we prepared to have our sessions filmed and leaked by rival fans? A bit far fetched at the moment but it happens higher up the pyramid I do not know who might take over the disused buildings. If 'secret agents' from our opposition are such a threat, we could always build an underground bunker, surrounded by armed guards and ravenous Dobermans. That would keep the buggers out!

Also what's the point in building a new training ground at a minimum cost of £300k only to eventually move again. Colliers Park was built to last us forever, sadly it was stolen from us. Can anyone honestly say that this project will last for years to come? Presumably the Board and WCC would agree a long-term lease, similar to what we currently have with Glyndwr and the Racecourse.

2 pitches aren't enough, hence why the club has trained at many different venues when the weather is bad. Is it the number of pitches or the quality of the pitches that caused our training sessions to be taken elsewhere? Why do we need more than 2 pitches?

It's not enough for the first team let alone factoring in the womens team, youth teams, reserve team (if we ever have one again), football in the community, racecourse foundation etc. See above.

As a child I had birthday parties at Colliers Park, they were amazing. Also the fans tournament getting us all closer to the club. Add into that is there room for a gym, treatment room, showers, canteen, offices, car park etc. I could go on but you get the idea.Presumably those requirements would be part of the spec, ranging from 'essential' to 'desirable'. Surely we should be using the Racecourse to generate extra revenue by dishing up jelly, blancmange and cream.

It's such a short sighted vanity project. The board don't care about whether its good for the club or whether the fans want it. They care about having something as a legacy and they're desperate to get it whilst living on borrowed time. They have nothing else to champion for themselves during their tenures here. We need training facilities because 9-Acres is not suitable and is likely to become unavailable.
Be critical of the Board where appropriate, but offer sensible alternatives rather than incoherent hankerings for what was, but is no longer.
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Old 8th April 2020, 15.34:33   #25-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

Quote:
Originally Posted by krux View Post
what other teams/companies are using it at 10am on a tuesday morning?

we are literally the only game (team) in town!
I don't know what the allocation/useage would be on any normal day. If there is availability at an affordable cost, and the FAW are happy for us to use it, the using Colliers' Parc becomes an option. Whether it's the best option, I know not because I don't have all the facts.
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Old 8th April 2020, 15.45:44   #26-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

Quote:
Originally Posted by eslessred View Post
Whilst I agree on most of your post PD a few points if you don't mind.
1,with regard to a previous poster in this thread about using the Uni facilities. I think the all weather pitch you're referring to is the one closest to Racecourse. I believe they have developed one on another bit of the campus. If the University are strapped for cash then surely us paying to use their facilities would be beneficial to both parties.
2, I think NWD has hit the nail on the head in his post further down the thread. We are a community club but it only seems like we as fans are consulted on things that "they the WST" think of and we'll approve of in a vote.
3, it is a vanity project for them they want a legacy. Its also short termism to.
4, you're absolutely right about there being a lack of trust between us and WST. All we as fans want is openness, clarity and good communication to the fans

P. S. Oh and a half decent team to watch every other week 😉
Again, if the facilities are there then it is an option. However, we would also need to train on a grass pitch.

The Board has painted itself into a corner over its managerial appointments, and how it communicates with the WST members.

Personally, in an ideal world, I would want the Board to act on our behalf by taking the necessary day-to-day decisions, and then reporting regularly to all the fans. Having the fans authorising every act is a recipe for disaster.

Ultimately, there is a lack of trust between the various bodies, and the WST Chairman seems either unable or unwilling to resolve the issues satisfactorily. However, some of the criticisms aimed at the Board are just a continuum of the internecine war that is damaging the club. It has to stop soon before it destroys the club.

PS I want a promotion-winning team next season. But we need to reconfigure the WST Constitution, get some fresh blood on the Board with new ideas, and appoint a manager who is up to the task, too, if we are to achieve this. Not much to ask for, is it?
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Old 8th April 2020, 15.46:56   #27-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Training ground vanity project

Quote:
Originally Posted by eslessred View Post
Apologies if this has been raised before, I very rarely start threads, but I wish to know members thoughts on this. I was at the last WST meeting and an update from SH was given. It was revealed that the basic cost was going to be circa £300k but could rise if the specification was raised. Now yes we need better facilities than 9 acre but to me it seems we are prepared to pay (for us) a lot of money for quite a limited amount of space in a land locked piece of land with no room for expansion should we eventually reach the Holy Grail of the FL.
Now with what's going on our finances are going to very stretched for a good few seasons to come. We've struggled to get near promotion since we've been in this hell hole, 1 PO final and 2 close runs to outright promotion in 12yrs, and that's with extra finances such as BtB, transfer fees etc.
So my question is, why don't we scrap the vanity project and try to do a deal with FAW at Colliers Park?. After all don't our youth teams play there?.
We could get the Lex ground for much less I guess ?
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