"National League clubs have voted to decide the leagues by PPG." - now confirmed

[davewilli]

Originally Posted by EnglishRed

I think we would, personally, Keates PPG over the season would have us in 16th (compared to Hughes which would see us 23rd and down) but we don't know really.

What we can probably all agree on is that this can never happen again. Whether its Keates or whoever in charge, this season needs looking at carefully so we can make sure the same mistakes are never replicated.

Good post, lessons need to be learnt and one is we don't keep changing the manager. Clubs generally only go one way when they do that.

There's a fine line between success and failure, but without stability, failure is most likely. It took Keates a while to steady the ship and stop us conceding for fun and did well to off load and recruit mid season whilst under intense pressure. We re-discovered, how to win away, got rid of that plastic pitch bogey and since DK's recruitment in January our form was good enough to survive scoring 14 goals and only conceding 6. For me that is progress, if only modest progress but many were predicting we were down and who knows what may have happened under a different manager. The experienced Jim Bentley was the choice of many and even with Fylde's finances it looks like they have been relegated.

I think DK will bring in more winners to add to the likes of Pearson and Harris and given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.

[Superunknown]

Lucky it ended when it did or we'd be plying our trade in the national League North next season.

[Phils-an-alki]

Originally Posted by davewilli

Good post, lessons need to be learnt and one is we don't keep changing the manager. Clubs generally only go one way when they do that.

There's a fine line between success and failure, but without stability, failure is most likely. It took Keates a while to steady the ship and stop us conceding for fun and did well to off load and recruit mid season whilst under intense pressure. We re-discovered, how to win away, got rid of that plastic pitch bogey and since DK's recruitment in January our form was good enough to survive scoring 14 goals and only conceding 6. For me that is progress, if only modest progress but many were predicting we were down and who knows what may have happened under a different manager. The experienced Jim Bentley was the choice of many and even with Fylde's finances it looks like they have been relegated.

I think DK will bring in more winners to add to the likes of Pearson and Harris and given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.

And after all that money spent Keates got us to the dizzy heights of 19th in the league. Hughes could have managed that. You probably could have Dave.

There's nothing to suggest Keates will get us challenging either. Absolutely nothing. Its irresponsible and borderline telling bare faced lies to suggest anything else.
In his first spell here we were falling away at an alarming rate before he jumped ship and the team was getting worse not better. Look at the results. Then look at his Walsall record, abysmal and saw them relegated.
So where are you drawing this confidence in him from?
It isn't results based that's for sure.

Football under him is just terrible and he sets up to not lose rather than to win. And he can't even do that properly either.

I agree changing managers constantly isn't the answer (you should tell that to the club board) but if you've hired someone and it isn't working you cut your losses. Sticking with because traditionally changing managers doesn't work is stupid. A lot of times changing managers absolutely works and there are many examples throughout the leagues.

Then throw in the boycott of many fans, the revenue the club will lose as a result and its a no brainer. You cannot ignore the fans. They will dictate whether a manager stays. Another rocky spell with Keates here and he'll be under tremendous pressure as 99% of fans don't want him here regardless. He hasn't got any credit to fall back on and that's a big big problem which you continually overlook.

[northwalian dragon]

Originally Posted by davewilli

Good post, lessons need to be learnt and one is we don't keep changing the manager. Clubs generally only go one way when they do that.

There's a fine line between success and failure, but without stability, failure is most likely. It took Keates a while to steady the ship and stop us conceding for fun and did well to off load and recruit mid season whilst under intense pressure. We re-discovered, how to win away, got rid of that plastic pitch bogey and since DK's recruitment in January our form was good enough to survive scoring 14 goals and only conceding 6. For me that is progress, if only modest progress but many were predicting we were down and who knows what may have happened under a different manager. The experienced Jim Bentley was the choice of many and even with Fylde's finances it looks like they have been relegated.

I think DK will bring in more winners to add to the likes of Pearson and Harris and given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.

I agree that we need stability. But that only applies if we have the right people in place and the right structure to begin with. The club will never be stable with Keates here. It was blatantly obvious before he was even appointed.

"It took Keates a while to steady the ship" is one big understatement. He took over and we were outside of the relegation zone, Keates then dragged us down to rock bottom. Our lowest ever position.

He "did well" to recruit. Some signings were good but he signed a load of kids (hardly in demand) and his mate Harris (who is a good signing granted). That's not really mastermining anything especially with over £100,000 extra to spend. Some of the signings were terrible too

"We rediscovered how to win away" - Keates first 10 away games: Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 8.

We also got smashed by Yeovil and put in one of the worst performances I've seen vs. Eastleigh. That doesn't show progress

We also have a consistent history of bottling pressure games under Keates. It's all well and good getting the odd freak result against the likes of Harrogate but when the pressure was on, we cracked. There would have been immense pressure for this run in.

Chesterfield (H) - Lost
Chesterfield (A) - Lost
Torquay - Lost
Fylde - Lost
Ebbsfleet - Lost
Sutton - Lost
Maidenhead - Lost
Aldershot - Lost
Dagenham (A) - Lost
Dagenham (H) - Drew
Eastleigh - (A) - Won
Eastleight - (H) - Drew

Won 1, Drew 2, Lost 9

Teams in and around us had many games against each other which meant that teams around us were guaranteed points, we were in big trouble

[northwalian dragon]

Originally Posted by davewilli

given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.

This is the catch-22 though. Keates being here means animosity, toxicity and a divided fanbase. Which means boycotts and a sizable chunk of the budget gone. He won't be given time or a competitive budget. It's destined to fail so lets not waste another season

[northwalian dragon]

Originally Posted by 3pmsaturday

Who knows if we would have gone down but the fact we are even discussing the possibility is an absolute disgrace.

Supporters of the Trust are often described as having an ideology etc. For me certainly up to League 1 with a club of our size its a model that should give sustainability and stability in business terms. I think it is a model that should see us progress.

That said the whole thing is pointless if football decisions are made by people with NO experience in the game. We should not replace Keates until we have somebody at the Club who has an understanding of whats required to build a club centred on success on the field. Someone with a vision to build a structure from the kids through the backroom staff, the coaches to the first team.

We have no strategy. No plan. We have a couple of individuals who as Shakespeare says

"A fool thinks himself wise but a wise man knows hes a fool"

There are plenty of people who think that they know best in relation to Football matters but mostly they have a modicum of understanding and are not wise enough to realise how little they know.

We have a window now to get into place a strategy for on field matters. This is a complete priority. That would include a review of first team manager as well as all footballing opportunities. There is nothing else bar fiscal survival that matters to me and to many fans in the short to medium term.

We have no time to waste. That said we must be sensible. We are failing on the pitch. We must be prudent and look at a season to rebuild, a season to challenge with playoffs a minimum and assuming we dont go up a season to go up as champions. Obviously we all want to get promotion asap but the club needs a plan.

Going back to the quote, and putting into context, I know enough about football to know I don't know very much, unfortunately there are those at the club who haven't hit that level and no doubt many of you shouting for immediate sackings with zero plans for the future who also haven't. We must address the knowledge/expertise gap on the board as an absolute priority.

Its so obvious to me it hurts...

This post is spot on. Especially the "I know enough about football to know I don't know very much" bit. We all have opinions but the majority of them have no substance, mine included. I can't comprehend the arrogance to not only ignore people like Barry Horne, to not only not seek a replacement for Horne, to not only state "we have all the required skillset", to not only bring in Dixie as a patsy, but to consistently fail year after year and not learn their lessons.

We have ties to some great players, coaches, managers. Consult with them. We have a prolonged period of inactivity. Use this time to plan and put into place a structure. We currently don't have one. We did have under Ricketts, but then decided to discard all of that.

[Kiddy Dragon]

given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.[/QUOTE]


In the present situation with so many clubs on the brink, a knowledeable management team with contacts should be able to bring together a squad capable of winning the National League. There are going to be a great many professionals from the Football League without contracts whenever we start up again.

[NottsRed]

Originally Posted by Kiddy Dragon

given a bit of time and a competetive budget, we will be back challenging, whenever a new season starts.

In the present situation with so many clubs on the brink, a knowledeable management team with contacts should be able to bring together a squad capable of winning the National League. There are going to be a great many professionals from the Football League without contracts whenever we start up again.[/QUOTE]

Why would they want to come here though? The club is in downward spiral of mismanagement and incompetence. Time and time again we have seen we are not able to attract the required quality especially upfront. Any youth prospect we have got we have sold at the first sniff of money. We have a manager and a one day a week coach who believe on playing the most ugly football imaginable will players often played out of position.

The only players that are going to come here are the crap with youtube highlight videos, Scottish lower league players and con artist like Bobby Grant.

Your right a knowledgeable manager could get a decent team together. Our manager and his motley crew will get us relegated next season.

[Kiddy Dragon]

I didn't say that!