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Old 26th June 2020, 09.16:17   #21-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by Phils-an-alki View Post
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'Just had to keep it ticking along'. Sounds almost disrespectful.

Don't try and downplay what Morrell did. You wrote that as if its easy. Ask Bryan Hughes how easy it is just to keep things ticking along and then challenge again the next season.

The reason people bang on, as you put it, about Morrell is because he's the only manager since being in non league to actually achieve something here.

Keates isn't fit to lace his boots.

You seem to have forgotten the team Hughes and then Keates inherited, the majority of the squad were challenging for the league under Ricketts.

Lets not try and rewrite history trying to make out Keates inherited a poor squad. After Hughes was sacked a good manager could have turned our season around. Unfortunately we got Keates who made us worse and we sank even lower.
I don't care how it sounds. Those are the facts, Morrell inherited THE best team we have had since we have been in division. The side Hughes inherited was nowhere near.

You can refer to Keates as many times as you like. I cant be arsed debating him on here as most have made their mind up on him, that's why I purposely did not make reference to him. His win percentage is crap, and he may be the worst person on planet earth, but I wouldn't beat him over the head with the win percentage.

I stand by my original point, win percentages aren't the be all and end all. Stats like that ignore mitigating circumstances, and you can manipulate them any which way you want. As I said.
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Old 26th June 2020, 09.25:21   #22-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by davewilli View Post
Time will tell, if the board resist changing managers too quickly once again. I would hazard a bet we'll be much closer to top 7 than bottom 7, once Keates puts his own squad together and given the resources we will be challenging for promotion.

Keates didn't inherit a squad that resembled the squad Rickett's squad that were in a play off position, the forward line had completely changed; no Roberts, no Walker; Chambers, JBB, McIntosh and Barton not good enough; Summerfield, Wright and Hooper long term injuries; Carra, Jennings and a less degree Pearson niggling injuries and missing games. So big changes were needed otherwise that squad was more than likely going to get relegated.

Keates wasn't my choice to return, so not sure why I'm arguing against the haters, but now he is here it would be folly to change manager again, and subsequently some players and targets with a new manager, (wasting more money we haven't got) let alone during an extended period of no football.
Keates took over from Hughes and the team got worse, fact. He took us to the bottom of the league. Your guess is based on hope and not much else.

Personally I want what's best for the club and will not blindly defend anything and everything the club does, or champion sticking with a manager for the sake of it and 'stability', which is the basis of your argument even though its flawed.

Ironic you should mention wasting more money. I'll refer you back to the disaster signings in Keates first spell in January.

The sooner Keates is gone the better.

Labelling people who think Keates is shite and can justify it as 'haters' is lame but not unexpected. If we're going down that road then I'd say that anyone who wants nothing but the best manager this club can get has been brainwashed and consumed by apathy and I'd question where their loyalties lie. Don't settle for mediocre. I know the WST does and so does the club board but its up to fans to force them to change their ways or move on.
You'd be here still defending Keates as we battle a relegation fight in the Conf North. Sometime blind support isn't heroic its just daft.
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Old 26th June 2020, 09.36:50   #23-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by KingBuxton_Forever red View Post
I don't care how it sounds. Those are the facts, Morrell inherited THE best team we have had since we have been in division. The side Hughes inherited was nowhere near.

You can refer to Keates as many times as you like. I cant be arsed debating him on here as most have made their mind up on him, that's why I purposely did not make reference to him. His win percentage is crap, and he may be the worst person on planet earth, but I wouldn't beat him over the head with the win percentage.

I stand by my original point, win percentages aren't the be all and end all. Stats like that ignore mitigating circumstances, and you can manipulate them any which way you want. As I said.
Win percentages are also facts.
Not sure why some find it so hard to give Morrell credit for what he did. Its bizarre, it really is.
Hughes failed to do what he did, so did Barrow. And then so did Keates. Keates task was different but that's his job, to turn the team around. Spencer even mentioned play offs. He's failed miserably and therefore should be sacked. This club is way better than appointing a no hoper like him. That's why it annoys the F out of fans.

A good manager will put out a side that performs beyond expectations and ability. Denis Smith did it. Ricketts did it. Morrell even did when we won the FAT and got to a play off final. We never had the leagues biggest budget, even under Saunders.
Keates did the opposite, there was no new manager bounce, no spark, the team just went backwards.

When people say they can't be arsed debating something its because they can't and know where it'll lead. No offence.
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Old 26th June 2020, 09.45:47   #24-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by davewilli View Post
Time will tell, if the board resist changing managers too quickly once again. I would hazard a bet we'll be much closer to top 7 than bottom 7, once Keates puts his own squad together and given the resources we will be challenging for promotion.

Keates didn't inherit a squad that resembled the squad Rickett's squad that were in a play off position, the forward line had completely changed; no Roberts, no Walker; Chambers, JBB, McIntosh and Barton not good enough; Summerfield, Wright and Hooper long term injuries; Carra, Jennings and a less degree Pearson niggling injuries and missing games. So big changes were needed otherwise that squad was more than likely going to get relegated.

Keates wasn't my choice to return, so not sure why I'm arguing against the haters, but now he is here it would be folly to change manager again, and subsequently some players and targets with a new manager, (wasting more money we haven't got) let alone during an extended period of no football.
This is why I am so upset with the club. The apathy in opinions like this is incredible.
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Old 26th June 2020, 09.52:33   #25-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

Personally thought the board jumped to get rid of Hughes too soon.
The football was more attractive, we scored goals and the team was developing.
The trust board sacked Hughes before the Fylde game but I don't think he knew.
We played well at Fylde and but for our "Keeper" would have won.
Hughes didn't do himself any favours by not accepting additional help added to some poor recruitment, particularly Barnum Bob.
Second mistake the FC board made was appointing Keates rather than leaving Flynn in charge. Flynn had the experience, could see potential and would take no sh!t. (unlike the Barrow debacle)
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Old 26th June 2020, 09.55:08   #26-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by redinsaudi View Post
This is why I am so upset with the club. The apathy in opinions like this is incredible.
Why be upset with the club, it's a fans optimistic view. Maybe overoptimistic but still valid. Certainly not apathetic (or he wouldn't have posted)
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Old 26th June 2020, 10.19:56   #27-0 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davewilli View Post
Time will tell, if the board resist changing managers too quickly once again. I would hazard a bet we'll be much closer to top 7 than bottom 7, once Keates puts his own squad together and given the resources we will be challenging for promotion.

Keates didn't inherit a squad that resembled the squad Rickett's squad that were in a play off position, the forward line had completely changed; no Roberts, no Walker; Chambers, JBB, McIntosh and Barton not good enough; Summerfield, Wright and Hooper long term injuries; Carra, Jennings and a less degree Pearson niggling injuries and missing games. So big changes were needed otherwise that squad was more than likely going to get relegated.

Keates wasn't my choice to return, so not sure why I'm arguing against the haters, but now he is here it would be folly to change manager again, and subsequently some players and targets with a new manager, (wasting more money we haven't got) let alone during an extended period of no football.


The board resist changing managers to soon, you're supporting Keates who when given the job we were told it was a 3 year project to get promotion, he was given a big budget supplemented with the begging bowls of build the budget.

3 years, first chance of jumping overboard after spending the fan money from BTB was disrespectful to the fans and the club for giving him his chance in management.

So bringing him back was also disrespectful to the fans.

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Old 26th June 2020, 10.37:31   #28-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by John Neals Dynasty View Post
The board resist changing managers to soon, you're supporting Keates who when given the job we were told it was a 3 year project to get promotion, he was given a big budget supplemented with the begging bowls of build the budget.

3 years, first chance of jumping overboard after spending the fan money from BTB was disrespectful to the fans and the club for giving him his chance in management.

So bringing him back was also disrespectful to the fans.

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It happens all the time in football, players managers, its their ambition that makes it. Loyalty works both ways but managers are sacked at the drop of a hat, because we always think grass is greener. I would give Keates some credit and forgiveness for they he captained the side and it's not so long ago, he carried on playing with a broken collar bone, showing real commitment to the club.
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Old 26th June 2020, 11.01:43   #29-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by davewilli View Post
It happens all the time in football, players managers, its their ambition that makes it. Loyalty works both ways but managers are sacked at the drop of a hat, because we always think grass is greener. I would give Keates some credit and forgiveness for they he captained the side and it's not so long ago, he carried on playing with a broken collar bone, showing real commitment to the club.
But does it happen under the circumstances that Keates left under? Giving him his first break in management, allowing him to play and study at the same time saving 3 years of his life, funding his degree, allowing him to blackmail the club for a new contract, sticking by him when he was leading a mutiny against Wilkin, paying him very well even when his legs had gone and he was a shadow of his former self, giving him an increased budget, fans raising £100,000 out of their own pockets, Keates leaving 6 weeks later, not even completing a full season (He hasn't completed a single season in his entire managerial career)

You can justify his reasons for leaving if you like, which I will most likely disagree with, but you can't justify him being brought back.

Can you name a manager in professional football who has left and been welcomed back? Some say Eddie Howe or Nathan Jones - both of who achieved great success before leaving and were rightly welcomed back. Keates has achieved nothing apart from the record of worst win percentage. Some record that though!

As for Keates' commitment to Wrexham AFC even as a player anyone that purposely disrupts and try to get the manager sacked is a sh*thouse. Let alone the captain of the club. Letting the club down just because he didn't like the manager. Keates cares about himself and himself only. Lets not be fooled into thinking he left because his only dream is to be at Walsall for life. He ditched them whilst club captain to sign for Peterbrough.

Let's do the right thing and boot him out the club.
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Old 26th June 2020, 14.40:22   #30-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Win percentages for Wrexham's non league managers

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Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Why be upset with the club, it's a fans optimistic view. Maybe overoptimistic but still valid. Certainly not apathetic (or he wouldn't have posted)
It is absolutely apathetic. ĎI didnít want Keates but Iíll accept ití. If you donít like it do something about it, donít just roll over. Facta Non Verba leaps to my mind.

Last edited by redinsaudi; 26th June 2020 at 14.41:23..
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