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View Poll Results: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?
For 72 34.29%
Against 97 46.19%
Abstaining 8 3.81%
Not eligible to vote 33 15.71%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 31st July 2020, 10.28:42   #199-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
There are break clauses in the lease in our favour. The first is after 10 years, which I wouldn't call long-term.

We have to do something now because we will have to leave our current training ground in the near future, and without sorting something else out we will be left with nowhere to train.

Because the site is near the Racecourse, players can continue to train and eat there, meaning there is no rush to build other facilities at the Groves. We can do it when we can afford it, which in my mind is also a big bonus.

I'm not being obtuse here - I am genuinely struggling to see any negatives to the Groves at all. I get that people don't like the idea of paying for the development of the pitches etc. but I can't see how that can be avoided no matter what we do. And having our own training ground with pitches designed for our needs seems to me to be a real competitive advantage.
Todd I do understand what you are saying but do you not think a proper proposal would have identified the sources of funding and would have had a cost benefit analysis against other training options. If that was what was presented and it stacked up as the best option I would have supported it because as you say we need somewhere to train. What I will not do is vote for something with no mention of funding and no comparison against other options as I like to be informed before I commit large sums of money. The WST are not informed and are committing £100k now with a possible further half a million plus to this
Old 31st July 2020, 10.31:23   #200-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
Surely any land we obtain will have these kinds of issues? Covenants, planning permission etc. Remember how long it took to get Colliers sorted?

The advantages here are that the land isn't costing us anything, and we have a sympathetic landlord who has offered to sort out the issues for us.
The advantages are outweighed by the negatives though. We have no opportunity to expand the training ground if we go up as less than 8 acres is not enough for a football league club with an academy and we have very little opportunity to make money off of the training ground. Do you recognise these disadvantages of the proposed training ground as the board sure do not?
Old 31st July 2020, 10.34:54   #201-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

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Originally Posted by Haruki View Post
Todd I do understand what you are saying but do you not think a proper proposal would have identified the sources of funding and would have had a cost benefit analysis against other training options. If that was what was presented and it stacked up as the best option I would have supported it because as you say we need somewhere to train. What I will not do is vote for something with no mention of funding and no comparison against other options as I like to be informed before I commit large sums of money. The WST are not informed and are committing £100k now with a possible further half a million plus to this
Understand where you are coming from. I guess the way I see it is that those costs can't be avoided, unless we managed to rent Colliers at a good rate for example, already built and ready to go. But it seems clear that is not an option.

Wherever the training ground is eventually located it seems to me that there is a cost involved in developing it, and the club will have to pay for it over time from income, football fortune, sponsorship, grants etc., just as we pay for everything else.

I like that the Groves site is free, that we have security of tenure there, and that it is near enough the Racecourse to be able to use the facilities there and to not have to rush into building changing rooms, kitchens and the like.
Old 31st July 2020, 10.36:11   #202-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
Surely any land we obtain will have these kinds of issues? Covenants, planning permission etc. Remember how long it took to get Colliers sorted?

The advantages here are that the land isn't costing us anything, and we have a sympathetic landlord who has offered to sort out the issues for us.
Yes - and Colliers probably a good example of how it is possibly not going to be plain sailing. There could be sites out there without hot potato style covenants, not in a residential area etc.

The issue to me is we have a time limited window to get it sorted due to the councils plan.
Old 31st July 2020, 10.38:30   #203-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

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Originally Posted by Hometown Unicorn View Post
The advantages are outweighed by the negatives though. We have no opportunity to expand the training ground if we go up as less than 8 acres is not enough for a football league club with an academy and we have very little opportunity to make money off of the training ground. Do you recognise these disadvantages of the proposed training ground as the board sure do not?
It'd be interesting to see what size training ground successful league two and league one clubs have. I have no idea if the site is too small. I know Tranmere have a great facility, and I'm sure the likes of Sunderland do, but it could be that they are outliers.

A full size pitch matching the Racecourse, a 4G pitch, goalkeeper training area, changing rooms, car parking, canteen and the other facilities sounds to me like a solid basis for a professional football team to be able to do some good work over the long-term.
Old 31st July 2020, 10.38:49   #204-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

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Originally Posted by tokyored View Post
Doesn't really make any sense, does it?
They can't take it back for 99 years.
But Wrexham have a break clause after 10 years, I'm not suggesting it will happen but the club and council could come to a agreement over the lease. That land could be worth a lot more money in a few years time.
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Old 31st July 2020, 10.41:59   #205-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
Understand where you are coming from. I guess the way I see it is that those costs can't be avoided, unless we managed to rent Colliers at a good rate for example, already built and ready to go. But it seems clear that is not an option.

Wherever the training ground is eventually located it seems to me that there is a cost involved in developing it, and the club will have to pay for it over time from income, football fortune, sponsorship, grants etc., just as we pay for everything else.

I like that the Groves site is free, that we have security of tenure there, and that it is near enough the Racecourse to be able to use the facilities there and to not have to rush into building changing rooms, kitchens and the like.
We agree that there are costs associated with training.
My point is that when moving house i don't want to be presented with one option by the estate agent and told to buy it or end up with nothing. I want to look at many houses and stack up which is the best option for me. I also want to know how I can afford to buy it and will look at mortgage lenders first......do you see where i am coming from?
Old 31st July 2020, 10.47:03   #206-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Sweeney View Post
It'd be interesting to see what size training ground successful league two and league one clubs have. I have no idea if the site is too small. I know Tranmere have a great facility, and I'm sure the likes of Sunderland do, but it could be that they are outliers.

A full size pitch matching the Racecourse, a 4G pitch, goalkeeper training area, changing rooms, car parking, canteen and the other facilities sounds to me like a solid basis for a professional football team to be able to do some good work over the long-term.
Lincoln City built a 12 acre site for £1.4m.

Oxford United train at a 39 acre facility.

Burton regularly use St. George's Park.

Wycombe's training facility has 3 grass pitches, 1 artificial pitch and a gym.

Those are just the first 4 I looked up on a quick google. I am sure you get the picture though.
Old 31st July 2020, 10.51:21   #207-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Groves Training Ground: How will you be voting?

Once again, I do not believe that 84% of people voting on this poll are current WST members who are entitled to vote. Not a chance.
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