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Old 14th January 2021, 20.56:39   #221-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

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Originally Posted by Alan Attack View Post
Similar to Fieldtown Red, it just hasn't been spent well. Had it been spent well we'd be having this discussion as a League club!

The turnover of managers hasn't helped and maybe if the club used the money to keep Keates (in his first spell) or Ricketts we would have built on the short term successes.
it just proves this must be the worst run club in the uk
Old 15th January 2021, 23.54:41   #222-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

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Originally Posted by tokyored View Post
Calm down. Not everyone who goes to a game is an adult. Young kids get in for a pound so the average overall is about £10-11.
If you actually read my previous post I did mention children and discounts.

Your still wrong about the budget above 4000, I didnít realise how little the average attendance had actually gone around 2014-2017, but I suppose that reflects on the team for those seasons.

Either way to push fan ownership and have it in place itís cost the club a fortune in mistakes.

Either way we ended up with an average attendance over the budget, ward money and Taylor money .... and needed to sell to keep the club alive itís been a shit show!
Old 16th January 2021, 00.14:45   #223-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

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Originally Posted by crazywelsh View Post
If you actually read my previous post I did mention children and discounts.

Your still wrong about the budget above 4000, I didn’t realise how little the average attendance had actually gone around 2014-2017, but I suppose that reflects on the team for those seasons.

Either way to push fan ownership and have it in place it’s cost the club a fortune in mistakes.

Either way we ended up with an average attendance over the budget, ward money and Taylor money .... and needed to sell to keep the club alive it’s been a shit show!
You did mention children but your figure of a £15 average wasn't right. It's between 10 and 11 pounds.
The budgeted attendance was probably (I can't remember if we were even told but must have been) lower around 2014-17, but recently it has been over 4000. A couple of seasons back it was based on a 4300 average which would have led to a 100k loss so wasn't even the breakeven attendance.

Which season are you saying we made £495,000 over the original budget from attendances? I don't actually disagree about mistakes and the second part of your post but I can't personally see a season where we came close to half a million.

Last edited by tokyored; 16th January 2021 at 00.26:56..
Old 16th January 2021, 00.27:58   #224-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyored View Post
You did mention children but your figure of a £15 average wasn't right. It's between 10 and 11 pounds.
The budgeted attendance was probably (I can't remember if we were even told) lower around 2014-17, but recently it has been over 4000. A couple of seasons back it was based on a 4300 average which would have led to a 100k loss so wasn't even the breakeven attendance.

Which season are you saying we made £495,000 over the original budget from attendances? I don't actually disagree about mistakes and the second part of your post but I can't personally see a season where we came close to half a million.
The season our ave attendance was 4,900-5100...I think 3 yrs ago, I'm sure we lost to Orient last away game, our break even was 3,700 crowds so if u work on £10 x 1300= £13k x 24 = £312k...that is min estimate, plus ur match day profits of food n drink , I'd defo say over £ 400k for that season.....I'm sure average paying spectator was actually £10.70 around then
Old 16th January 2021, 01.10:53   #225-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

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Originally Posted by mold road trendy View Post
The season our ave attendance was 4,900-5100...I think 3 yrs ago, I'm sure we lost to Orient last away game, our break even was 3,700 crowds so if u work on £10 x 1300= £13k x 24 = £312k...that is min estimate, plus ur match day profits of food n drink , I'd defo say over £ 400k for that season.....I'm sure average paying spectator was actually £10.70 around then
The 2018/19 season when we averaged 5100?
Our breakeven was way over 3700 2 years ago. We were told about 4300 attendances which would lead to a 100k loss so the breakeven would be even higher (about 4700).

I'd say 800*10*23= 184k over budget would be a lot closer to the mark.


As an example of the figures from the past, our 2016-17 budget was based on crowds of 4358
https://wst.org.uk/www3/index.php/do...m-minutes/file

Last edited by tokyored; 16th January 2021 at 01.17:54..
Old 16th January 2021, 02.20:45   #226-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

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Originally Posted by KM Red View Post
The biggest problem for supporter ownership is it often happens when clubs are in a massive decline. Given our crowds we should have done better under the WST but sadly not enough people of sufficient quality got involved.
Are you admitting the board members weren't of sufficient quality? Have you finally seen the light?!
Old 16th January 2021, 07.19:44   #227-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phils-an-alki View Post
But that scenario was within sight if there was no takeover now. So that spin is flawed. The club blew millions of pounds on nothing and from looking at several posters forecast of the financials (WrexhamO's was the main one that stood out) and some basic maths, we would have been in serious financial trouble either this season or next. It was only a matter of time when you consider the WST had lost thousands of fans and with the pandemic.

The myth that the 'club was well run off the field' has been blown apart in recent years. I'd assumed that penny had dropped with all but the lager club massive.

Well run clubs don't have to go begging for secret loans or not have anywhere decent to train. Or plan for a training ground with no money to pay for it. Or appoint managers like Hughes and Keates and Barrow and Mills and allow them to run riot.
A badly managed/run club will always be reflected on the pitch.

Look back at where we've finished in the league under the WST and come back and tell me that's a well run football club. The only time we were competitive, truly, was with a Moss/Saunders squad and very briefly under Ricketts and they couldn't even keep hold of him for one season.

When the takeover was voted for there were attempts to rewrite history from some pro wst lunatics who had dropped their WST forever stance like a hot potato when they realised the club was fcked if it carried on as is.

So they attempted to rewrite history on here but it was easily seen for what it was straight away and many have crawled back under their wst beach towels.

Anyway, now that I've put things straight lets move on.
I think we could claim to be competitive 2018/19 when a win at Orient would have seen us as champions. However there are serious questions to be asked in relation to financials and ,as you know, i welcome the takeover. My point has always been that I simply wanted Fans ownership to work but not ever at the cost of my club and not ever if those running it fail. I agree with WrexhamO's questions but can also imagine that many business's not just football are facing financial issues as a result of covid. History should never be re-written but that of course works both ways.
Old 16th January 2021, 14.27:24   #228-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyored View Post
You did mention children but your figure of a £15 average wasn't right. It's between 10 and 11 pounds.
The budgeted attendance was probably (I can't remember if we were even told but must have been) lower around 2014-17, but recently it has been over 4000. A couple of seasons back it was based on a 4300 average which would have led to a 100k loss so wasn't even the breakeven attendance.

Which season are you saying we made £495,000 over the original budget from attendances? I don't actually disagree about mistakes and the second part of your post but I can't personally see a season where we came close to half a million.
The final season prior to covid, was the average attendance used. As that would fall in line with the ward and Taylor money all at once.

You can sit and argue as much as you want, you cannot deny the budget was a million as standard (as standard) but raised to 1.3million for Hughes, so we for instance added 300k to the budget. Taylor was around 300k and ward for arguments sake let’s days 1.3million (probably more) with Increased attendance over budget, we should have about 1.3 million to play with but we haven’t got a penny of it.

You can argue about 10 or 11 pound but you cannot accept there a 1.6 million minimum black hole somewhere!

300k extra went on the budget which was already set through the clubs financial income as it was previously, where the hell is around 1million plus of cash!

Gavin forgot about multiple 100k loans remember, maybe they forgot about a million in a club account...
Old 16th January 2021, 14.32:24   #229-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazywelsh View Post
The final season prior to covid, was the average attendance used. As that would fall in line with the ward and Taylor money all at once.

You can sit and argue as much as you want, you cannot deny the budget was a million as standard (as standard) but raised to 1.3million for Hughes, so we for instance added 300k to the budget. Taylor was around 300k and ward for arguments sake letís days 1.3million (probably more) with Increased attendance over budget, we should have about 1.3 million to play with but we havenít got a penny of it.

You can argue about 10 or 11 pound but you cannot accept there a 1.6 million minimum black hole somewhere!

300k extra went on the budget which was already set through the clubs financial income as it was previously, where the hell is around 1million plus of cash!

Gavin forgot about multiple 100k loans remember, maybe they forgot about a million in a club account...
WST members should call a resolution in relation to this - where is the money ?
Old 16th January 2021, 15.41:32   #230-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wrexham Leader confirms fans want Keates out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazywelsh View Post
The final season prior to covid, was the average attendance used. As that would fall in line with the ward and Taylor money all at once.

You can sit and argue as much as you want, you cannot deny the budget was a million as standard (as standard) but raised to 1.3million for Hughes, so we for instance added 300k to the budget. Taylor was around 300k and ward for arguments sake let’s days 1.3million (probably more) with Increased attendance over budget, we should have about 1.3 million to play with but we haven’t got a penny of it.

You can argue about 10 or 11 pound but you cannot accept there a 1.6 million minimum black hole somewhere!

300k extra went on the budget which was already set through the clubs financial income as it was previously, where the hell is around 1million plus of cash!

Gavin forgot about multiple 100k loans remember, maybe they forgot about a million in a club account...
I was arguing about the £10 because literally the only issue I had was your numbers which led to a half a million profit. It wasn't £15 per ticket, it wasn't a 4000 predicted attendance and it wasn't a 5500 average crowd. We made more than expected but significantly less than 495k.

As for the 'black hole' I think most people are now aware we're not nearly as financially well off as was made out over the years. We've recently been valued at essentially £0 as we lose money. Without football fortune we'd have been in big trouble even on much smaller budgets.
The last accounts showed around a 900k loss without the ward money and you'd expect similar amounts in the next ones for last season (if we get to see them post takeover).

I don't see anything dodgy going on from the accounts considering they are audited every year and have probably just been analysed to the penny by R&R's team.

Last edited by tokyored; 16th January 2021 at 15.43:21..
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