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sparky 10th September 2021 19.51:31

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Foxy;2512830]Be careful. After that statement they will mark you out as a Zionist imperialist crusader and will be burning effigies of you in Saith Seren.[/QUOTE]

The sooner they start up JCP Wrexham the better. I'm sure we'd all throw in a couple of quid and sell a few key rings to help them on their way.

fezbob 10th September 2021 19.52:44

[QUOTE=rob_1072;2512844]The only thing about Antifa thatís anti fascist is the name, just look at their actions to see there true character.[/QUOTE]

Whoís they? Antifaís an ideology and not an organisation.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Jose 10th September 2021 19.53:51

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=louisleftboot;2512839]More horrific than the actual nazis? Bold call.[/QUOTE]

If only 'Antifa' weren't doing exactly the same as the Nazi's did you may have a call, but as they are synonymous in action if not in all but the intricacies of their name, I'll call you out as being an Antifa\Nazi, as there is NO difference.

It's either their indoctrination or they will 'attempt' violence to force you in to their way of thinking. Think back to 1930'sGermany and you may find correlation with another political movement.

Sounds pretty much like Nazism to me.

louisleftboot 10th September 2021 19.57:09

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Jose;2512849]If only 'Antifa' weren't doing exactly the same as the Nazi's did you may have a call, but as they are synonymous in action if not in all but the intricacies of their name, I'll call you out as being an Antifa\Nazi, as there is NO difference.

It's either their indoctrination or they will 'attempt' violence to force you in to their way of thinking. Think back to 1930'sGermany and you may find correlation with another political movement.

Sounds pretty much like Nazism to me.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the 6 million Jews they’ve also killed. You may disagree with them, but to say they are more fascist than the actual Nazis is bananas. Have they secretly been euthanising gay people and people with disabilities?

Foxy 10th September 2021 19.57:24

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=sparky;2512847]The sooner they start up JCP Wrexham the better. I'm sure we'd all throw in a couple of quid and sell a few key rings to help them on their way.[/QUOTE]

Iíve got a dishevelled and unwashed Palestinian scarf that I would be quite happy to donate to help them on their way. Itís a legacy of my student Uni days in the early eighties. They can also have my CND badge and Michael Foot donkey jacket.

fezbob 10th September 2021 19.57:36

[QUOTE=Jose;2512849]If only 'Antifa' weren't doing exactly the same as the Nazi's did you may have a call, but as they are synonymous in action if not in all but the intricacies of their name, I'll call you out as being an Antifa\Nazi, as there is NO difference.

It's either their indoctrination or they will 'attempt' violence to force you in to their way of thinking. Think back to 1930'sGermany and you may find correlation with another political movement.

Sounds pretty much like Nazism to me.[/QUOTE]

Iím pretty sure thereís a big difference between people who get into the odd ruck with right wingers and a political organisation that wiped out 6 million people isnít the same.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.02:44

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512853]Iím pretty sure thereís a big difference between people who get into the odd ruck with right wingers and a political organisation that wiped out 6 million people isnít the same.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

I agree in the main - but get into the odd ruck with right wingers - is that all they do!

The Nazis's were anti-government and it would appear that most Antifa supporters are as well.

You don't need to support Antifa to be anti-fascist.

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.03:13

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Foxy;2512852]Iíve got a dishevelled and unwashed Palestinian scarf that I would be quite happy to donate to help them on their way. Itís a legacy of my student Uni days in the early eighties. They can also have my CND badge and Michael Foot donkey jacket.[/QUOTE]

Now that is funny to be fair :)

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.04:20

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512853]I’m pretty sure there’s a big difference between people who get into the odd ruck with right wingers and a political organisation that wiped out 6 million people isn’t the same.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

The truth is probably in the middle. As fascist as the Nazis? No. Just having the odd ruck... equally No.

As an aside -i'm always amazed at how similar the far right and left are.

Dougie Davies 10th September 2021 20.04:37

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Jose;2512849]If only 'Antifa' weren't doing exactly the same as the Nazi's did you may have a call, but as they are synonymous in action if not in all but the intricacies of their name, I'll call you out as being an Antifa\Nazi, as there is NO difference.

It's either their indoctrination or they will 'attempt' violence to force you in to their way of thinking. Think back to 1930'sGermany and you may find correlation with another political movement.

Sounds pretty much like Nazism to me.[/QUOTE]

You've had a mare there. Where are the Antifa death camps?
They murdering Jews, the disabled, teachers, academics?
RP Gold right there

rob_1072 10th September 2021 20.07:20

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512848]Whoís they? Antifaís an ideology and not an organisation.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

The people who carry antifa flags at rallyís and protests that usually turn violent. They tend to dress in all black and cover their faces. Your a journalist right? You must have seen some of the videos online. Mostly in America but like most things is getting spread over here too

lewi11 10th September 2021 20.08:38

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
This is the thing, Antifa isn't an organisation. There are no subs, no membership, no card carrying. It's an umbrella term for everyone who is against fascism. Whether you're a militant protester, socialist, trade unionist or just a random guy who hates fascists. Everyone who opposes fascism is Antifa.

And this will probably come across as incredibly simplistic. But if you're anti Antifa then surely that makes you a fascist.

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.12:42

[QUOTE=rob_1072;2512860]The people who carry antifa flags at rallyís and protests that usually turn violent. They tend to dress in all black and cover their faces. Your a journalist right? You must have seen some of the videos online. Mostly in America but like most things is getting spread over here too[/QUOTE]

I donít agree with violence but would class myself as being against fascism. Iíve seen the likes of Donald Trump and his supporters try and paint the idea of ďantifaĒ as something itís not, in a similar way to how they label BLM as Marxist to delegitimise people who want racial equality. Canít think why anyone would want to do thatÖ
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.13:02

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=lewi11;2512861]This is the thing, Antifa isn't an organisation. There are no subs, no membership, no card carrying. It's an umbrella term for everyone who is against fascism. Whether you're a militant protester, socialist, trade unionist or just a random guy who hates fascists. Everyone who opposes fascism is Antifa.

And this will probably come across as incredibly simplistic. But if you're anti Antifa then surely that makes you a fascist.[/QUOTE]

Agree - incredibly simplistic.

Jose 10th September 2021 20.16:28

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512853]Iím pretty sure thereís a big difference between people who get into the odd ruck with right wingers and a political organisation that wiped out 6 million people isnít the same.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Yes because Communism (the great Antifa ideal) never killed anyone did it.

Chairman Mao - 80 million deaths

Stalin - 9 million deaths

is a really enviable goal to aim for isn't it

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.16:33

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2512857]The truth is probably in the middle. As fascist as the Nazis? No. Just having the odd ruck... equally No.

As an aside -i'm always amazed at how similar the far right and left are.[/QUOTE]

Youíd have to go some way to reach the mid-point towards the Nazis.

ďIn addition to six million Jewish people, more than five million non-Jewish people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Among them were Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, gay people, black people, the physically and mentally disabled, political opponents of the Nazis, including Communists and Social Democrats, dissenting clergy, resistance fighters, prisoners of war, Slavic people, and many individuals from the artistic communities whose opinions and works Hitler condemned.Ē
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.19:01

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512864]I don’t agree with violence but would class myself as being against fascism. I’ve seen the likes of Donald Trump and his supporters try and paint the idea of “antifa” as something it’s not, in a similar way to how they label BLM as Marxist to delegitimise people who want racial equality. Can’t think why anyone would want to do that…
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

I'm against fascism and I'm certainly not racist but don't support Antifa or BLM.

Personally, I think the way to tackle extremism is at the ballot box. Unfortunately extremists on the far left and right do not see it that way.

Anyone who thinks Antifa and BLM does not have its fair share of far left extremists must be a bit naive as far as I am concerned.

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.21:15

[QUOTE=Jose;2512868]Yes because Communism (the great Antifa ideal) never killed anyone did it.

Chairman Mao - 80 million deaths

Stalin - 9 million deaths

is a really enviable goal to aim for isn't it[/QUOTE]

As itís not a centralised organisation with a specific doctrine beyond fighting racism and fascism, Iím not sure how you come to the conclusion that everyone whoís antifa is a Communist.

Both the antifa and ďCommieĒ label have been used over the years by politicians who want to demonise their opponents, rather than counter groups who are highly dangerous.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.22:30

[QUOTE=Vorporix;2512872]I'm against fascism and I'm certainly not racist but don't support Antifa or BLM.

Personally, I think the way to tackle extremism is at the ballot box. Unfortunately extremists on the far left and right do not see it that way.

Anyone who thinks Antifa and BLM does not have its fair share of far left extremists must be a bit naive as far as I am concerned.[/QUOTE]

If youíre against fascism and racism then youíre very much antifa, whether you believe so or not.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Jose 10th September 2021 20.23:24

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=lewi11;2512861]This is the thing, Antifa isn't an organisation. There are no subs, no membership, no card carrying. It's an umbrella term for everyone who is against fascism. Whether you're a militant protester, socialist, trade unionist or just a random guy who hates fascists. Everyone who opposes fascism is Antifa.

And this will probably come across as incredibly simplistic. But if you're anti Antifa then surely that makes you a fascist.[/QUOTE]

Good lord, get a grip.

You are more fascist than the original fascists.

Think our way or we will beat you.
Read our books and nothing else.
What we believe is what you must believe.

Sounds horrific when put like that doesn't it.

But that's what you are

And that is why you will be stopped dead.

This country doesn't suffer fascists in whatever form you try to disguise yourself. You are not tolerated.

louisleftboot 10th September 2021 20.23:28

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Jose;2512868]Yes because Communism (the great Antifa ideal) never killed anyone did it.

Chairman Mao - 80 million deaths

Stalin - 9 million deaths

is a really enviable goal to aim for isn't it[/QUOTE]

So these blokes with the flags up the slag heap are basically Stalin and Hitler rolled into one. Bloody hell.

rob_1072 10th September 2021 20.24:01

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512864]I donít agree with violence but would class myself as being against fascism. Iíve seen the likes of Donald Trump and his supporters try and paint the idea of ďantifaĒ as something itís not, in a similar way to how they label BLM as Marxist to delegitimise people who want racial equality. Canít think why anyone would want to do thatÖ
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

I donít care what trump or the crazy right wing rednecks have to say about antifa they are two sides of the same coin to me. Antifa may not be an official organisation but many of those who represent it show how it can be as violent as as the right in the US. Itís one of those things started off with good intentions and has been taken over by ideological extremes.

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.26:20

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512869]Youíd have to go some way to reach the mid-point towards the Nazis.

ďIn addition to six million Jewish people, more than five million non-Jewish people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Among them were Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, gay people, black people, the physically and mentally disabled, political opponents of the Nazis, including Communists and Social Democrats, dissenting clergy, resistance fighters, prisoners of war, Slavic people, and many individuals from the artistic communities whose opinions and works Hitler condemned.Ē
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Middle might have been an exaggeration but love how you ignore my point re. the far left is no better. See Communism.

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.28:42

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512873]As it’s not a centralised organisation with a specific doctrine beyond fighting racism and fascism, I’m not sure how you come to the conclusion that everyone who’s antifa is a Communist.

Both the antifa and “Commie” label have been used over the years by politicians who want to demonise their opponents, rather than counter groups who are highly dangerous.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Well perhaps not everyone is anti-democratic either:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion[/url]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29[/url]

A small extract:

Individuals involved in the antifa movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, and anti-state views, subscribing to a varied range of left-wing ideologies. A majority of adherents are anarchists, communists, and other socialists who describe themselves as revolutionaries, although some social democrats and others on the American Left, among them environmentalists, LGBT and indigenous rights advocates, also adhere to the antifa movement.

I have no problem with the anti-fascist bit.

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.29:16

[QUOTE=rob_1072;2512877]I donít care what trump or the crazy right wing rednecks have to say about antifa they are two sides of the same coin to me. Antifa may not be an official organisation but many of those who represent it show how it can be as violent as as the right in the US. Itís one of those things started off with good intentions and has been taken over by ideological extremes.[/QUOTE]

Extremism of any kind is clearly dangerous but thereís only one ideology which is causing counter terrorism anywhere near as much concern as Islamic extremism at the moment and itís not antifa.

[url] https://news.sky.com/story/right-wing-extremism-fastest-growing-threat-says-uks-top-cop-in-counter-terrorism-12135071[/url]
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Lods 10th September 2021 20.29:25

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Jose;2512875]Good lord, get a grip.

You are more fascist than the original fascists.

Think our way or we will beat you.
Read our books and nothing else.
What we believe is what you must believe.

Sounds horrific when put like that doesn't it.

But that's what you are

And that is why you will be stopped dead.

This country doesn't suffer fascists in whatever form you try to disguise yourself. You are not tolerated.[/QUOTE]

Ridiculous argument. Who has beaten you for wrongthink or punished you for reading the wrong books?

"I don't like being called a fascist so I better call people fascists" is a hell of a stance, too.

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.30:22

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2512878]Middle might have been an exaggeration but love how you ignore my point re. the far left is no better. See Communism.[/QUOTE]

Whatís 5.5 million dead people between friends, eh?
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Vorporix 10th September 2021 20.31:09

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512874]If youíre against fascism and racism then youíre very much antifa, whether you believe so or not.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

No - I'm a democrat - I would never support an organisation such as Antifa which is full of extremists.

louisleftboot 10th September 2021 20.32:11

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=Vorporix;2512884]No - I'm a democrat - I would never support an organisation such as Antifa which is full of extremists.[/QUOTE]

Surely being a democrat would be default mean you are against fascism. Welcome aboard Comrade V.

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.32:21

[QUOTE=Vorporix;2512880]Well perhaps not everyone is anti-democratic either:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion[/url]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_%28United_States%29[/url]

A small extract:

Individuals involved in the antifa movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, and anti-state views, subscribing to a varied range of left-wing ideologies. A majority of adherents are anarchists, communists, and other socialists who describe themselves as revolutionaries, although some social democrats and others on the American Left, among them environmentalists, LGBT and indigenous rights advocates, also adhere to the antifa movement.

I have no problem with the anti-fascist bit.[/QUOTE]

Without any sort of membership structure, what source is the author using to define ďa majorityĒ? Genuine question.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.34:41

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512883]Whatís 5.5 million dead people between friends, eh?
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Compared to the 80 million deaths in China?

You can ignore the truth but the far reaches of left and right are fundamentally the same.

corwenred 10th September 2021 20.35:18

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
Lots of people parroting the Farage/Daily Mail/Andy Ngo/GB News lines here.

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.35:41

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=louisleftboot;2512886]Surely being a democrat would be default mean you are against fascism. Welcome aboard Comrade V.[/QUOTE]

Vorporix has already stated he is against fascism. As, i'd imagine, are the vast majority of us.

rob_1072 10th September 2021 20.36:19

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512881]Extremism of any kind is clearly dangerous but thereís only one ideology which is causing counter terrorism anywhere near as much concern as Islamic extremism at the moment and itís not antifa.

[url] https://news.sky.com/story/right-wing-extremism-fastest-growing-threat-says-uks-top-cop-in-counter-terrorism-12135071[/url]
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

Thatís worrying for sure, just the same as the rise in left wing extremists. Do you remember that large area of Seattle being taken over by far left groups? Chaz I think they called it. Burning down buildings, people being shot etc call it out on both sides. Sounds pretty dangerous to me. Iím going to call it here not really the place to discuss an should probably be move to off topic.

steve 10th September 2021 20.36:23

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
Ain't antifa normally a bunch of mainly spotty students half of them female who turn up at neo nazi or extreme right marches/ events to oppose them? Can't say I've ever heard of them confronting your everyday joe on the street or trying to force anybody to read their books and stuff or have I missed something?

fezbob 10th September 2021 20.36:43

[QUOTE=cardiffred;2512889]Compared to the 80 million deaths in China?

You can ignore the truth but the far reaches of left and right are fundamentally the same.[/QUOTE]

Remind me what any of this has to do with a few Wrexham fans putting some flags up on a slag heap again? So theyíre backing the 80 million deaths in China or someone else is? Iím rather lost.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

louisleftboot 10th September 2021 20.37:28

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=cardiffred;2512891]Vorporix has already stated he is against fascism. As, i'd imagine, are the vast majority of us.[/QUOTE]

So you’re anti-fascist then. We could even shorten it to antifa. You’re antico too, and that’s fine too.

Surely if people just stopped being fascists, there wouldn’t be any need for anti-fascists. So just pack it in lads.

corwenred 10th September 2021 20.41:43

[QUOTE=rob_1072;2512892]Thatís worrying for sure, just the same as the rise in left wing extremists. Do you remember that large area of Seattle being taken over by far left groups? Chaz I think they called it. Burning down buildings, people being shot etc call it out on both sides. Sounds pretty dangerous to me. Iím going to call it here not really the place to discuss an should probably be move to off topic.[/QUOTE]

You mean Portland. A city that's famously anti-fascist and has been seeing large numbers or "Proud Boys" and "Patriot Prayer" supporters busssed in purely to cause a seen. And continue to do so. You're partly right about an area of the city being taken over I can't quite remember the name of it but it became a sort of anarchist community to protect protestors from typically heavy handed American policing.

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.50:39

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=louisleftboot;2512895]So youíre anti-fascist then. We could even shorten it to antifa. Youíre antico too, and thatís fine too.

Surely if people just stopped being fascists, there wouldnít be any need for anti-fascists. So just pack it in lads.[/QUOTE]

I could just be anti

cardiffred 10th September 2021 20.51:14

Re: Wrexham sign on slag-heap defaced
 
[QUOTE=fezbob;2512894]Remind me what any of this has to do with a few Wrexham fans putting some flags up on a slag heap again? So theyíre backing the 80 million deaths in China or someone else is? Iím rather lost.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

I've not once said that it had anything to do with them.


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