Hindsight
 

The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Ruabon Red;2293566]The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?[/QUOTE]

Who knows. The WST have done a fantastic job off the pitch but now we need a change.

Re: Hindsight
 

I sometimes do wonder how fun those few years of promotion after promotion would've been. Overall I'm happy we didn't go bust though and I do think that with some tweaking, we'll be back to where we were.

Re: Hindsight
 

I was eating a burger at the Racecourse on Saturday. The ketchup squirted in my eye. I wish I had not done that.i suppose that's what you call Heinz sight.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Ruabon Red;2293566]The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?[/QUOTE]

RP saved the club from folding, they sat on their hands as the bond money was raised!

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2293644]RP saved the club from folding, they sat on their hands as the bond money was raised![/QUOTE]

It’s funny how the truth is lost in the myth.

Re: Hindsight
 

we would be in the Welsh league if we had refolded, teams have to be a certain distance for lower leagues know thats one reason why Colwyn Bay rejoined Welsh system

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2293713]we would be in the Welsh league if we had refolded, teams have to be a certain distance for lower leagues know thats one reason why Colwyn Bay rejoined Welsh system[/QUOTE]

We would've had a vote on it and the vast majority would've voted to reform in the English system. That I'm sure of.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=paddockgraham;2293713]we would be in the Welsh league if we had refolded, teams have to be a certain distance for lower leagues know thats one reason why Colwyn Bay rejoined Welsh system[/QUOTE]

What is refolded?

Re: Hindsight
 

Definitely not. At best we'd be at the same level if that had happened, just with a bit less money than we already have.

We've been a steady 5th tier team in that time. We've just needed that one final push to get promotion for the past two years, although we have regressed this season.

I agree something needs to change, but I feel saying "perhaps we should have folded and reformed" is over the top.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Prodigal Dragon;2293688]It’s funny how the truth is lost in the myth.[/QUOTE]

This is not a trick question. What is the truth? Did WST, RP or just the fans stumping up save the club?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=eosceiriog;2294113]This is not a trick question. What is the truth? Did WST, RP or just the fans stumping up save the club?[/QUOTE]

There was certainly a lot of hype on hear to deliver. Concerted effort. All as moss stood hands in his jacket smiling as us all taking the hit.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=René Higuita;2293770]What is refolded?[/QUOTE]

Origami?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2293644]RP saved the club from folding, they sat on their hands as the bond money was raised![/QUOTE]

Bizarrely WST sat on their hands because at that time they wanted the club to go the wall.So they could take over the reformed club on the cheap

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Hightown Brymbo Red;2294120]Bizarrely WST sat on their hands because at that time they wanted the club to go the wall.So they could take over the reformed club on the cheap[/QUOTE]

Exactly, they also backed the splitting up of assets, but like to keep that hush hush.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Lods;2293778]Definitely not. [B]At best we'd be at the same level if that had happened,[/B] just with a bit less money than we already have.

We've been a steady 5th tier team in that time. We've just needed that one final push to get promotion for the past two years, although we have regressed this season.

I agree something needs to change, but I feel saying "perhaps we should have folded and reformed" is over the top.[/QUOTE]

But perhaps not have the[I] `we're-ever-so-grateful-to-the-WST-for-saving-us'[/I] hangover?

Re: Hindsight
 

If I was on the board now I'd be having a quiet word with Pearson and asking the question, "what the f*** is going on" how is the management, the training, the spirit in the squad. Come to a conclusion, and act on it.
Is this too simple?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=eosceiriog;2294113]This is not a trick question. What is the truth? Did WST, RP or just the fans stumping up save the club?[/QUOTE]

The WST would have had to get members permission to hand over the amount of cash needed. I believe one WST board member offered the deeds of his house.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2294121]Exactly, they also backed the splitting up of assets, but like to keep that hush hush.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what assets you refer to but would be interested to know. Thanks in anticipation.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Ruabon Red;2293566]The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?[/QUOTE]

Dont want to even talk about it. We might be shite on the pitch atm but conversations like this are almost willing us to have previously folded.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=KingBuxton_Forever red;2294170]Dont want to even talk about it. We might be shite on the pitch atm but conversations like this are almost willing us to have previously folded.[/QUOTE]

No, not willing us to have folded - it was a genuine question.

Re: Hindsight
 

Impossible to tell, but I suspect not. We almost certainly would not be at the Racecourse.

We are where we are. Just need to get on with it!

[QUOTE=Redpensioner;2294164]If I was on the board now I'd be having a quiet word with Pearson and asking the question, "what the f*** is going on" how is the management, the training, the spirit in the squad. Come to a conclusion, and act on it.
Is this too simple?[/QUOTE]


You think they don't know what's happening with the management and the team spirit?

They are supposed to be fans, they attend the home games some of them away, they are all on RP in some guise or other and their sheep followers they know exactly what's happening in the dressing room, lack of training/fitness tactical nous.

But they are more concerned about their own positions they will hang on for ever if they can by whatever means it takes, they love the limelight in the media so they deflect and deflect criticism.

When the club was run by previous private owners with crooked intentions those individuals were rightly hounded out of the club.

But what we have now is what started out as good intentions turned into a power trip on the WAFC board and the WST board they close ranks and hide in their bunkers. The only thing they are bothered about is self preservation no matter what it takes, they actually think they own the club.

It will never change until we get change at the top...but that will never happen.
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Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Ruabon Red;2293566]The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?[/QUOTE]

Simple answer would be to look at clubs that have done it in the time we have been trust owned and see if they have got back to their original level:
Chester - No (obviously they did at one point but got relegated)
Darlington - No
Rushden & Diamonds - No

A phoenix club would only ever have been the last resort, wouldn't it?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=podders;2294529]Simple answer would be to look at clubs that have done it in the time we have been trust owned and see if they have got back to their original level:
Chester - No (obviously they did at one point but got relegated)
Darlington - No
Rushden & Diamonds - No

A phoenix club would only ever have been the last resort, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]

Halifax?

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=podders;2294529]Simple answer would be to look at clubs that have done it in the time we have been trust owned and see if they have got back to their original level:
Chester - No (obviously they did at one point but got relegated)
Darlington - No
Rushden & Diamonds - No

A phoenix club would only ever have been the last resort, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's a fair comparison. We're a bigger club than all those by quite a way.

I don't think a club with a fanbase as large as ours has gone bust in recent times.

[QUOTE=Hometown Unicorn;2294547]I don't think that's a fair comparison. We're a bigger club than all those by quite a way.

I don't think a club with a fanbase as large as ours has gone bust in recent times.[/QUOTE]


Bury
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Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2294561]Bury
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Their fanbase is a solid 4k, no matter what level they're at. Ours is bigger.

Re: Hindsight
 

Surprised anyone would even contemplate this. The pain of us folding would have been horrible and would still hurt now regardless how well the phoenix club did.

Personally massively thankful we kept going and to all those that helped that happen.

For the record before I get called a deluded nodding clapper (or similar) I think we dropped a total clanger appointing BH and change is needed asap.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Hometown Unicorn;2294547]I don't think that's a fair comparison. We're a bigger club than all those by quite a way.

I don't think a club with a fanbase as large as ours has gone bust in recent times.[/QUOTE]

AFC Wimbledon took 9 seasons to get back to the football league, however when they were formed Wimbledon had just finished 9th in the Second Tier (then First Division now Championship). So they have not yet reached there old level.

[QUOTE=Hometown Unicorn;2294563]Their fanbase is a solid 4k, no matter what level they're at. Ours is bigger.[/QUOTE]

When in the league we were getting 2000 at one stage yes it maybe bigger but it's not massive and most regular fans are middle aged and older...we have been non league playing garbage for so long now kids will not come like when we were their age.
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Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2294568]When in the league we were getting 2000 at one stage yes it maybe bigger but it's not massive and most regular fans are middle aged and older...we have been non league playing garbage for so long now kids will not come like when we were their age.
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Every clubs' fanbase took a hit then, the country was poor and matchday prices were rising.

Bury mustered an average of 4k for a promotion season last time out. We'd have at least 1.5x that in league two.

I also think you're wrong on the kids comment. There's still a healthy amount turning up and buying season tickets. My cousin asked about how to go about getting his first season ticket recently.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Inside Left;2294168]Not sure what assets you refer to but would be interested to know. Thanks in anticipation.[/QUOTE]

There was an option put forward to raise the money to buy the ground as part of the sale, a 2nd set of shares to raise the capital, the Chair of the WST at the time was up for it, the rest turned it down meaning the ground went to the Uni and the club to the Trust.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=GarryOggy;2294166]The WST would have had to get members permission to hand over the amount of cash needed. I believe one WST board member offered the deeds of his house.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but he was not on the board at the time, so that is a bit misleading.

Another who also later became a board member, handed over his savings despite being unemployed at the time - I think!

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=WrexhamO;2294577]Yes, but he was not on the board at the time, so that is a bit misleading.

Another who also later became a board member, handed over his savings despite being unemployed at the time - I think![/QUOTE]

Not deliberately misleading like the poster who said WST sat on their hands. Many members would have contributed.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=GarryOggy;2294587]Not deliberately misleading like the poster who said WST sat on their hands. Many members would have contributed.[/QUOTE]

Happy to accept it's not deliberate, but it still was misleading.

I do believe they were WST members at the time as were many who contributed. I also believe some WST board members were thinking that a phoenix club was the best way forward. While others would have been fighting to carry on.

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Bagger Vance;2294576]There was an option put forward to raise the money to buy the ground as part of the sale, a 2nd set of shares to raise the capital, the Chair of the WST at the time was up for it, the rest turned it down meaning the ground went to the Uni and the club to the Trust.[/QUOTE]

Bagger I did not know what you were referring to. I have never known of this option to purchase and who was involved or that It was places before the WST and club boards. I thought I was in touch, clearly not. But I still try to keep an eye on things ( I think :)).

If there was such a scheme and was 'controlled' via some form of separate trust I would have certainly preferred that.

I am associated with a smaller club who have a similar ground 'insurance ownership'and own the freehold. their system is working well - safeguarded by some sound honest guys.

The path chosen at Wrexham was to remain under Glyndwrs ownership with the 'reducing' lease. I don't know of anyone who has seen the details of that lease agreement outside the WST and club board and their legal adviser. Just hope it is good for the future of the club - time will tell.

Re: Hindsight
 

WST saved us, but now we need to move on and regroup

Re: Hindsight
 

[QUOTE=Ruabon Red;2293566]The WST saved the club from folding.

Given where we are today, would the club be in a healthier state had it folded and re-formed lower down the pyramid?[/QUOTE]

Healthier state in what way? Financially we are in a stable position. People may not like how the trust are using (or not) the money but we are not in debt. That's rare in football.

In a football sense would we be in a better place? We are badly underperforming so far this season but we are still in a place where we are feasibly capable of challenging for promotion from this league. Have any clubs reformed and shot straight through to the football league? It took Newport 25 years and a lottery winner to do it (the season before they went up they were lucky not to get relegated) Chester flew through the glue leagues but couldn't establish themselves in our division and are noticeably diminished as a club from their league counterparts. Darlington, Hereford etc aren't back at this level yet.

I think people are getting a bit carried away.

Re: Hindsight
 

It's not a trick question, and of course no-one has the answer.

I was thinking more of the `just-be-grateful-we-have-a-club' and `don't-criticise-the-WST-because-they-saved-the-club' mindset.

Whilst we may not have been back at this level yet or playing at the Cae Ras even, a fresh start may have freed us from our fear of failure and tendency to look back rather than forward.

As I say, not a trick question, and not one with an axe to grind, just putting it out there