Club Ownership
 

It's a topic of much debate, we've had polls on all sorts recently, but not this.

How do you see the long term future ownership of Wrexham AFC?

Re: Club Ownership
 

i see those in charge completely opposed to any change, because of a mixture of delusion of grandeur, bloody mindedness, utopean ideals and a necessity to conceal poor management, unless there is a change of policy the club will go into administration the fans will do their best to save it but it may be too late

Re: Club Ownership
 

The concept of fan ownership has its limitations which we have seen the stark reality of in recent years.

Couple that with the calibre people we are able to find to run the club and without changes, there will be no club soon.

Re: Club Ownership
 

Typical negative start to posts.
I am in favour of attracting additional funding but not relinquishing control.
The options listed are Black and white. There are other alternatives.
51% ownership.
Share issues with board representation.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2365898]Typical negative start to posts.
I am in favour of attracting additional funding but not relinquishing control.
The options listed are Black and white. There are other alternatives.
51% ownership.
Share issues with board representation.[/QUOTE]

Did you miss [B]Part Ownership[/B] and [B]Other[/B]?

You wouldn't have voted anyway if those were listed.

Re: Club Ownership
 

I think full sale will never happen in a million years but attracting funding may be a possibility especially with our financial difficulties we keep finding our selves in.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2365900]Did you miss [B]Part Ownership[/B] and [B]Other[/B]?

You wouldn't have voted anyway if those were listed.[/QUOTE]

Is part ownership 49% or 51%?

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2365903]Is part ownership 49% or 51%?[/QUOTE]

It's a co- ownership, I could list into the 10's different options. It was easy to vote part ownership then go into more detail on your preference.

Or you can choose to be all pedantic about it.

Re: Club Ownership
 

If the WST maintained full ownership of the stadium lease through WST Assets Limited and charged its running costs to the club on a cost recovery basis then I would see selling up to 50% of the club as a real opportunity that would raise capital, being in some real business and commercial skills but not risk the figure of the ground or the club due to the Supporters continues involvement.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=dragonspark;2365894]i see those in charge completely opposed to any change, because of a mixture of delusion of grandeur, bloody mindedness, utopean ideals and a necessity to conceal poor management, unless there is a change of policy the club will go into administration the fans will do their best to save it but it may be too late[/QUOTE]

With crowds down by just over 1000 on average over the 18 games which we played we will probably have suffered match day income being down by well over £150,000 possibly as high as £180,000 just on the same game ratio. Hopefully we have squired away some money or the WST will need to invest considerably, poor decisions may have put the club at risk. We can’t suffer another season as bad as this besides losing more fans the WST can’t keep covering losses and it’s clear from the fund raising many have tired from this.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2365907]It's a co- ownership, I could list into the 10's different options. It was easy to vote part ownership then go into more detail on your preference.

Or you can choose to be all pedantic about it.[/QUOTE]

He has a point ,it was the first thing I thought about too , part ownership with the majority share

Re: Club Ownership
 

Answer's quite easy the Peaky Blinders and their followers will never give up the ideology that's failed in 12 years.

As I see it we will be non league forever due to the amateurish hand to mouth begging bowl way the club is run, money is wasted hand over fist.

Another season of failure if one starts as the WHO are predicting a possible big second waver during their flu season, a record number of new cases today worldwide 150000 some fools think it's all over. No cure it's nowhere near over.

Whatever happens carry on as we are then the slow decline and eventual death of the club is inevitable one day.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Huffy;2365916]He has a point ,it was the first thing I thought about too , part ownership with the majority share[/QUOTE]

That's how I see it, others see retaining 10% other 90% and anything inbetween. Even other options like Haruki has put forward.

Rather than list loads of options it would be simple to vote and state further.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2365918]That's how I see it, others see retaining 10% other 90% and anything inbetween. Even other options like Haruki has put forward.

Rather than list loads of options it would be simple to vote and state further.[/QUOTE]

I was a hybrid fan once but I think the WST has burnt all its bridges. It has proved, on the whole, so useless that no private individual would want to work with it. Maybe if it was transformed with a new breed of competent board member, but no sign of enough types of this quaility coming forward.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2365922]I was a hybrid fan once but I think the WST has burnt all its bridges. It has proved, on the whole, so useless that no private individual would want to work with it. Maybe if it was transformed with a new breed of competent board member, but no sign of enough types of this quaility coming forward.[/QUOTE]

Sadly I think you're correct, I've a feeling due to the pandemic we're going to find out soon.

The WST really need to be having this debate now, as we'll have little time to waste.

Re: Club Ownership
 

Why on earth would anyone pump in a substantial amount of money if the current leadership would continue to waste it ? Anyone putting in meaningful funds would be perfectly entitled to expect to have greater than 50% ownership surely.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2365922]I was a hybrid fan once but I think the WST has burnt all its bridges. It has proved, on the whole, so useless that no private individual would want to work with it. Maybe if it was transformed with a new breed of competent board member, but no sign of enough types of this quaility coming forward.[/QUOTE]

Anyone with any business skill if already involved with a business will most likely be too busy rebuilding after the lockdown to donate time and skills presently. I really don’t see anybody any different than before coming forward and with nine places I fear we could be in far worse hands.

Re: Club Ownership
 

Full sale this model hasnt worked and never will

[QUOTE=Pieman;2365930]Full sale this model hasnt worked and never will[/QUOTE]

Weren't we in the championship under private ownership?
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2365898]Typical negative start to posts.
I am in favour of attracting additional funding but not relinquishing control.
The options listed are Black and white. There are other alternatives.
51% ownership.
Share issues with board representation.[/QUOTE]

your post is the only negative one i have read

Re: Club Ownership
 

I voted part ownership and by that I meant the WST having to relinquish full control.

If someone is putting cash in they will rightly want in excess of 50%.

Let's be honest the WST have made a cats arse of the club and the only way to save it now is by fresh outside investment and it can"t happen soon enough.

However I see it continuing under this communist style regime and the club eventually dying with the various factions blaming each other.

Such a shame because the club has fantastic potential

Re: Club Ownership
 

Just 8% backing full WST ownership. Pretty shocking. Poll should be emailed across once a larger sample size is obtained. I know we need to vote in an AGM but this highlights the high proportion of the fan base that has lost hope.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=René Higuita;2365938]Just 8% backing full WST ownership. Pretty shocking. Poll should be emailed across once a larger sample size is obtained. I know we need to vote in an AGM but this highlights the high proportion of the fan base that has lost hope.[/QUOTE]

They really do not care. The people currently heading up WST want fans ownership and nothing else. Lindsay for example has such strong views it’s hard to grasp! As long as the constitution protects them, they’ll simply laugh at polls like this.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=René Higuita;2365938]Just 8% backing full WST ownership. Pretty shocking. Poll should be emailed across once a larger sample size is obtained. I know we need to vote in an AGM but this highlights the high proportion of the fan base that has lost hope.[/QUOTE]

They just stitched up the AGM with the 90 day rule exactly as I predicted.

If they were really open to change you would be able to join now and get a vote.

The Kremlin is a closed shop

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=krux;2365934]Weren't we in the championship under private ownership?
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size][/QUOTE]

We were but obviously a long time ago. I just want to see some hope for us but year after year it is getting worse under this model.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=René Higuita;2365938]Just 8% backing full WST ownership. Pretty shocking. Poll should be emailed across once a larger sample size is obtained. I know we need to vote in an AGM but this highlights the high proportion of the fan base that has lost hope.[/QUOTE]

I voted for full ownership as it ask’s what I would like to see, however I don’t believe it’s possible to continue in this format and deliver success as we don’t have the skill set on the board to deliver it. I would love fans ownership but it can’t continue as it is they, have turned on fans and have made no apologies for it or the bad management. With the right people I would love fans ownership but feel a full sale is the only thing that would move us forward.

Ie I would like fans ownership but we need and should sell the club.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=standman;2365944]I voted for full ownership as it ask’s what I would like to see, however I don’t believe it’s possible to continue in this format and deliver success as we don’t have the skill set on the board to deliver it. I would love fans ownership but it can’t continue as it is they, have turned on fans and have made no apologies for it or the bad management. With the right people I would love fans ownership but feel a full sale is the only thing that would move us forward.

Ie I would like fans ownership but we need and should sell the club.[/QUOTE]

Nice to hear some views from those who are in the minority for a change. :)

[QUOTE=Back of the Kop;2365936]I voted part ownership and by that I meant the WST having to relinquish full control.

If someone is putting cash in they will rightly want in excess of 50%.

Let's be honest the WST have made a cats arse of the club and the only way to save it now is by fresh outside investment and it can"t happen soon enough.

However I see it continuing under this communist style regime and the club eventually dying with the various factions blaming each other.

Such a shame because the club has fantastic potential[/QUOTE]


Exact reasons I voted part ownership, but any investor would need majority share, it's either this or be having this conversation again in non league in 12 years.. If the club still exists along with many others.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Club Ownership
 

As I've posted before, whichever ownership model is in place, a club can be well run or badly run.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Haruki;2365908]If the WST maintained full ownership of the stadium lease through WST Assets Limited and charged its running costs to the club on a cost recovery basis then I would see selling up to 50% of the club as a real opportunity that would raise capital, being in some real business and commercial skills but not risk the figure of the ground or the club due to the Supporters continues involvement.[/QUOTE]

Yup.

Personally I think there's two ways to look at mixed ownership. One is to look at ways to safeguard anything that bad owners would like to exploit, as you suggested, then sell whatever shareholding. Thus giving a chance to grow, bring in other ideas/experience and work to set short, medium and long-term plans.

The other way as seeing it as 'the great evil'.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Foxy;2365922]I was a hybrid fan once but I think the WST has burnt all its bridges. It has proved, on the whole, so useless that no private individual would want to work with it. Maybe if it was transformed with a new breed of competent board member, but no sign of enough types of this quaility coming forward.[/QUOTE]

All of this.

If we were to start from scratch then I think a hybrid model offers the best of both worlds. Sadly, with the ideologists in charge that will never happen. Shame.

Re: Club Ownership
 

I've voted part ownership but it would need to be that the WST has a minority stake but with safeguarding clauses for if the club was in financial difficulty as it was under Moss.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Answer Release;2365940]They really do not care. The people currently heading up WST want fans ownership and nothing else. Lindsay for example has such strong views it’s hard to grasp! As long as the constitution protects them, they’ll simply laugh at polls like this.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Most people know exactly where a poll like this, put on RP by a poster who is violently opposed to fan ownership, will go. It's another pointless poll. You may as well poll Hindus in the Catholic Herald as people with opposing views to those on here will just be insulted or ignored. So they won't bother.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Cymro;2365969]Nope. Most people know exactly where a poll like this, [B]put on RP by a poster who is violently opposed to fan ownership[/B], will go. It's another pointless poll. You may as well poll Hindus in the Catholic Herald as people with opposing views to those on here will just be insulted or ignored. So they won't bother.[/QUOTE]

None of what you've said is true.

The poll was done because I knew about some of the contents of the latest update. You've also missed how I cast my vote too...

Or countless times how I've said I'm in favour of co-ownership or with safeguarding clauses.

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Cymro;2365969]Nope. Most people know exactly where a poll like this, put on RP by a poster who is violently opposed to fan ownership, will go. It's another pointless poll. You may as well poll Hindus in the Catholic Herald as people with opposing views to those on here will just be insulted or ignored. So they won't bother.[/QUOTE]

Almost as pointless as the elections at the AGM, where those voted off boards can the be co-opted back on.

[QUOTE=Pieman;2365943]We were but obviously a long time ago. I just want to see some hope for us but year after year it is getting worse under this model.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.
[size=1][i]Posted via mobile theme[/i][/size]

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=LlayDragon;2365973]Almost as pointless as the elections at the AGM, where those voted off boards can the be co-opted back on.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

Re: Club Ownership
 

Enlighten me please.
Who has been voted back on after being unsuccessful at an AGM election?

Re: Club Ownership
 

[QUOTE=Quay Red;2365999]Enlighten me please.
Who has been voted back on after being unsuccessful at an AGM election?[/QUOTE]

Play said CAN be not has. Perhaps that is another flaw in the constitution and election arrangements.

Re: Club Ownership
 

How about putting the results of this poll on the Wrexham.com forum, Facebook or twitter get it out into the public domain then the board will have to acknowledge it. But there again they know best.