Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Inside Left;2071653]Why? Whats he left behind ?[/QUOTE]

Tongue in cheek, only joking. But he's got to pull his finger out, or else.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

What a load of doughnut s who started this thread
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

This thread is complete bollocks.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Red_Jackoisback;2071663]This thread is complete bollocks.[/QUOTE]

A bit like todays game :)

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Well Keates has been in the job nearly a year. Doesn't look like he has learnt a great deal in that time.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Joke thread - full stop.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=WrexSi;2071592]Keates made some bizarre selection decisions today. What's frustrating sometimes for the fans is, the wall of silence at times. No real news out of the club before or after games. For all we know Akil could be carrying a knock. Or maybe Coddington was always the plan, but the lad who played Tuesday was signed afterwards too as a useful stopgap before Coddington was ready to actually come and play for us. Who knows. We never hear anything. After matches we just get cliches out of Keates.
We go again next game, etc.

But I think the rot that has set in at the club goes way, way beyond the sole reason being the arguable inadequacies of Wilkin, Mills, Keates.

They can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

There's no spending power here guys.

We will never challenge for promotion, ever, if we don't speculate to accumulate.

All we will ever have, even if Mourinho was running the team, is a mid table conference (NL) team, as there's no money.

We are profitable, sustainable, it's our club, it can never die.

But football wise it's going nowhere, it never can, and never will.[/QUOTE]

Mismanagement has got us to where we are now, not supporting the CoE and the rubbish excuses to try and justify it. Young lads will hang around if they cam see a route to the first team, it's that bloody simple! Makes my blood boil knowing we now have local WPL clubs with better academies, Chester do also and are bloody part time!

A couple of years back we signed a number of lads from Gap Connahs Quay at a few different age grades, how did we miss out on so many of them in the first place? How many more have slipped the net? Things have meant to have been improved in this area recently so we will see.

Also watching Mills come in and cause further damage when it was clear to a few of us after the dreadful Christmas fixtures during his first season he wasn't cutting the mustard, the goings on started to come out of the wood work then and still he was kept on for another season!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2071595]I said we might have to see this season out under Keates and as painful as it may sound see where we are this time next season.
We need to give a manager a decent chance at some point and let him try to build a team. Sacking Keates now would take us back to the drawing board completely in my opinion. If at Christmas we are bottom half in the league then that should trigger a rethink. Otherwise we see this season out and surely to god he'll have learnt valuable lessons and will act accordingly.

Saying that he needs to inject something into this team otherwise he's just digging his own grave. Fans won't keep coming back for the dullfest currently on offer. It'll turn sour.[/QUOTE]

With respect Phil we've had 4 seasons of mid table dog muck as it is and we can't just be prepared to see a season out. No matter who is in charge or whether it's their first or 5th season in charge, our goal has got to be promotion. We cannot keep accepting mid table. We have got to become winners. Luton. Bristol Rovers. Nothing less than 3 points can be acceptable.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=welshian;2071593]This is what kills me. I've got no problem with keates on 18 months to prove his worth, but to offer such a ridiculous contract to a guy still in his managerial nappies was a huge mistake. Now we are stuck with this woeful football.[/QUOTE]

The deal has many benefits job security is good for anyone as long as targets are met. The clubs in a right mess and the board stood by and watched on or caused much of it themselves, whether you think Keates is up to it or not he has a hell of a task in just turning things around so such a long deal is needed. The deal is mutually beneficial we were told when it was signed.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2071671]Mismanagement has got us to where we are now, not supporting the CoE and the rubbish excuses to try and justify it. Young lads will hang around if they cam see a route to the first team, it's that bloody simple! Makes my blood boil knowing we now have local WPL clubs with better academies, Chester do also and are bloody part time!

A couple of years back we signed a number of lads from Gap Connahs Quay at a few different age grades, how did we miss out on so many of them in the first place? How many more have slipped the net? Things have meant to have been improved in this area recently so we will see.

Also watching Mills come in and cause further damage when it was clear to a few of us after the dreadful Christmas fixtures during his first season he wasn't cutting the mustard, the goings on started to come out of the wood work then and still he was kept on for another season![/QUOTE]

True. Is it me or do we not actually hear much about our youth set up these days anyway? It's almost like CQNomads have a better set up than us these days.
We still aren't bringing many through to our 1st team ourselves are we.
And yep, too much cronyism was going on with Mills at that point. He seemed to have our board in the palm of his non-drinking hand.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

I think Keats is doing a decent job to be fair.but this great football club.will never progress.without a big money backer.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=WrexSi;2071675]True. Is it me or do we not actually hear much about our youth set up these days anyway? It's almost like CQNomads have a better set up than us these days.
We still aren't bringing many through to our 1st team ourselves are we.
And yep, too much cronyism was going on with Mills at that point. He seemed to have our board in the palm of his non-drinking hand.[/QUOTE]

We used to have a vast number of lads playing for the Welsh youth teams far more than most clubs, what's concerning is WPL academy lads are on the fringes or getting into those squads, particularly at the younger ages when wales has a north and South team. Gap Connahs Quay had a lad in the North Wales team who put 5 past a Man Utd team they played, he impressed so much they took him on. Okay, we may not have kept hold of him if he was playing for us, but what concerns me is were frequently missing out on many of the finest talents in North Wales to WPL clubs.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Hugely premature to make these sort of decisions in my opinion.

Most managers, at any level, when they have a new team try and instill a defensive solidity first and foremost. Once this is established they move onto sorting out the attack. Ultimately the football might not be the most entertaining but we are two points off the top with an excellent defensive record. As a work in progress (part of a 2/3 year plan) after the first quarter of the season surely we have to be happy with that?

As for today, with our well documented attacking issues, and the organisation (not to mention niggly timewasting tactics) Paul Cox is instilling at Guiseley the game was always going to turn out as it did. I'm not defending the line up but as fans we aren't privy to all the discussions and decisions that are made over the weekend before a game based on training scouting and other factors. It's easy to day this player or that player should have played or we should be using X formation but thats always a very simplistic view of things without taking into account all factors.

Frustration is one thing but it's just not the time for kneejerk reactions

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

I often think we deserve to be where we are when we have threads calling for the manager's head when we're 2 points off the top spot and unbeaten in 6 games.

Thankfully, the majority have dismissed this thread but if you listen to Keates, he says it's not good enough so it's all eyes on him to improve it.

It's no surprising that we're a defensively savy team when our best players are our centre backs and central midfielder.

[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2071679]I often think we deserve to be where we are when we have threads calling for the manager's head when we're 2 points off the top spot and unbeaten in 6 games.

Thankfully, the majority have dismissed this thread but if you listen to Keates, he says it's not good enough so it's all eyes on him to improve it.

It's no surprising that we're a defensively savy team when our best players are our centre backs and central midfielder.[/QUOTE]

Not sure how wedgebury is being included as one of our better players. He is a big part of the problem. Slow, passing is generally poor or slow in seeing the opportunity to bring others into play. Often panics and hoists the ball high. He's yet to convince me that he's a good signing
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Alan Attack;2071679]I often think we deserve to be where we are when we have threads calling for the manager's head when we're 2 points off the top spot and unbeaten in 6 games.

[B]Thankfully, the majority have dismissed this thread but if you listen to Keates, he says it's not good enough so it's all eyes on him to improve it.[/B]

It's no surprising that we're a defensively savy team when our best players are our centre backs and central midfielder.[/QUOTE]

Yet he keeps playing the same tactics that aren't working. He freely admits these tactics wont work without a target man yet persists.

We played our best football of the season when Carrington is suspended and Wright is in the midfield. Today Wright is on the bench and Carrington back in the midfield and look what happens.

Yes we are two points off of the top and unbeaten in six but in all reality the negative football is costing us points and now fans. I can't help but think with a more experienced manager with a plan B when its not working we would easily be on 24 - 26 points at the moment.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=NottsRed;2071681]Yet he keeps playing the same tactics that aren't working. He freely admits these tactics wont work without a target man yet persists.

We played our best football of the season when Carrington is suspended and Wright is in the midfield. Today Wright is on the bench and Carrington back in the midfield and look what happens.

Yes we are two points off of the top and unbeaten in six but in all reality the negative football is costing us points and now fans. I can't help but think with a more experienced manager with a plan B when its not working we would easily be on 24 - 26 points at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Or near the bottom . Glass half full man me

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2071677]We used to have a vast number of lads playing for the Welsh youth teams far more than most clubs, what's concerning is WPL academy lads are on the fringes or getting into those squads, particularly at the younger ages when wales has a north and South team. Gap Connahs Quay had a lad in the North Wales team who put 5 past a Man Utd team they played, he impressed so much they took him on. Okay, we may not have kept hold of him if he was playing for us, but what concerns me is were frequently missing out on many of the finest talents in North Wales to WPL clubs.[/QUOTE]

That's right. I think they have had as many as twenty kids on the last few years taken on at EFL/EPL clubs....we are indeed missing out on them. Not good.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=standingroomonly2;2071680]Not sure how wedgebury is being included as one of our better players. He is a big part of the problem. Slow, passing is generally poor or slow in seeing the opportunity to bring others into play. Often panics and hoists the ball high. He's yet to convince me that he's a good signing
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What I have seen of him so far would have to agree, Wright seems by far our best midfielder and find it a bit worrying that he only got in the team due to Carrington being out and was dropped today. Keates has done a good job with the defence and we have a good foundation to build on but it is a concern that supporters can see things like the Wright situation and Kelly not being used in his best position of central midfield or just off the forwards and Keates can't.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=GiggityGiggityGiggityGoo;2071677]We used to have a vast number of lads playing for the Welsh youth teams far more than most clubs, what's concerning is WPL academy lads are on the fringes or getting into those squads, particularly at the younger ages when wales has a north and South team. Gap Connahs Quay had a lad in the North Wales team who put 5 past a Man Utd team they played, he impressed so much they took him on. Okay, we may not have kept hold of him if he was playing for us, but what concerns me is were frequently missing out on many of the finest talents in North Wales to WPL clubs.[/QUOTE]

At least in the latest Welsh U17 squad named for matches this week we have Matty Sargent & Steffan Bulkeley with 5 from Everton and a few from Swansea & Cardiff.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Rob Edwards;2071685]At least in the latest Welsh U17 squad named for matches this week we have Matty Sargent & Steffan Bulkeley with 5 from Everton and a few from Swansea & Cardiff.[/QUOTE]

One of them pulled out though haven't they? We had far more in the squad when we got relegated even with Moss selling them on to much outcry, that continued under trust ownership and we had no outcry. The CoE has been neglected and we're certainly paying for it and some now, it's going to cost a small fortune getting it back to how it was which apparently os the plan now.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=NottsRed;2071681]Yet he keeps playing the same tactics that aren't working. He freely admits these tactics wont work without a target man yet persists.

We played our best football of the season when Carrington is suspended and Wright is in the midfield. Today Wright is on the bench and Carrington back in the midfield and look what happens.

Yes we are two points off of the top and unbeaten in six but in all reality the negative football is costing us points and now fans. I can't help but think with a more experienced manager with a plan B when its not working we would easily be on 24 - 26 points at the moment.[/QUOTE]

Gary Mills was experienced. I don't recall his Plan B.

The last 4 years since we lost to Newport has been like Groundhog Day.

Keates and his coaching team have made us solid but they now need to focus on making us a bit more expansive. In a 4-4-2, the game often revolves around whose midfield can push the others back. Keates must be instructing his two to sit in as much as possible which leaves a big gap between to the forwards.

Equally, we're getting next to nothing from our wingers (Kelly, Rutherford and Mackreth). They're barely linking with their full back.

Wasn't Darlington lauded as this great signing? Surely the three of them know more about football than us lot so let's give them a chance i.e. more than 2 months.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

If its premature to get rid (and it is) Can anyone justify his 3 year contract? ... When Morrell ,wilkins and Mills never got that luxury

[QUOTE=Funny_Old_Game;2071604]Vose was in the Leader saying how he lost his way after leaving here, can anyone see anything wrong in giving him a short term deal? Even as a bench option he would actually inject some excitement into the ditchwater dull stuff we watch every week.[/QUOTE]


I would personally go pick him up.
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[QUOTE=Foxy;2071575]We can't keep changing managers, especially when it's the same clowns picking the next manager.[/QUOTE]

You're right we can't keep changing managers and we are only 2 points off top 6 games unbeaten. But DK needs to learn from his mistakes quickly else now the honeymoon is over the pressure will build, besides the interview clapometer has been taken by Barry Horne (joke), we can't keep changing managers although I thought & said giving the job to a rookie was mad at the time, but having said that the so called experienced ones did no better.
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2071701]You're right we can't keep changing managers and we are only 2 points off top 6 games unbeaten. But DK needs to learn from his mistakes quickly else now the honeymoon is over the pressure will build, besides the interview clapometer has been taken by Barry Horne (joke), we can't keep changing managers although I thought & said giving the job to a rookie was mad at the time, but having said that the so called experienced ones did no better.
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We can keep changing managers. If someone isn't upto the job then you replace them. Having said that the people appointing the manager probably need replacing to since they seem to be getting it wrong everytime!

[QUOTE=Birdy;2071702]We can keep changing managers. If someone isn't upto the job then you replace them. Having said that the people appointing the manager probably need replacing to since they seem to be getting it wrong everytime![/QUOTE]


Aston Villa kept changing their manager and ended up relegated, crystal palace after 4 games, the problem is more about Keates having to completely build a new side in the summer. It's a big ask expecting all the signings to work out
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Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

It's ridiculous to say we should be sacking Keates already but that's not to say I'm happy with him so far. His negative approach to games is a massive turn off for me.

Two defensive midfielders in a game at home to the team next to bottom in the league and who are the leagues lowest scorers with just 6 goals before today and who had not picked up a single point away this season.

Says it all about his approach to games.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

it's exactly the same problems we've had all season , boring football. Same formation, same Players( Carrington in CM). Majority of fans are losing faith in Keates. The league this year is piss poor , we won't have a better chance!! Keats can find a keeper quick enough, get a creative CM and striker!!!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=John Neals Dynasty;2071705]Aston Villa kept changing their manager and ended up relegated, crystal palace after 4 games, the problem is more about Keates having to completely build a new side in the summer. It's a big ask expecting all the signings to work out
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I think that is the reality...it is a big ask.
Rebuilding is easier said than done...Availalbility of players,affordability , relocating....It's not so easy to assemble a title challenging side....Isn't this why Keates was given a 3 and half year contract...Not expecting failure but surely this is work that needs to be constantly adjusted...Saying that, so far very disappointed in Roberts and Boden as contracted players....

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

my view to build from the back make us hard to beat.then progress throu the side improving ,each aspect, midfield ,forwards ,pickin points up as we go

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Bryn Tirion;2071707]It's ridiculous to say we should be sacking Keates already but that's not to say I'm happy with him so far. His negative approach to games is a massive turn off for me.

Two defensive midfielders in a game at home to the team next to bottom in the league and who are the leagues lowest scorers with just 6 goals before today and who had not picked up a single point away this season.

Says it all about his approach to games.[/QUOTE]

What difference does it make to you given your not watching it anyway.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Should Utd have sacked Mourinho last season ? We are all (those of us that went) disappointed with yesterday but this is ridiculous and cheap shots at the board a joke. When we win players contracts are not long enough - when we fail to win the managers too long.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Is it a coincidence that most people who aren't fully supportive of Keates can't spell his name?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=Phils-an-alki;2071595]I said we might have to see this season out under Keates and as painful as it may sound see where we are this time next season.
We need to give a manager a decent chance at some point and let him try to build a team. Sacking Keates now would take us back to the drawing board completely in my opinion. If at Christmas we are bottom half in the league then that should trigger a rethink. Otherwise we see this season out and surely to god he'll have learnt valuable lessons and will act accordingly.

Saying that he needs to inject something into this team otherwise he's just digging his own grave. Fans won't keep coming back for the dullfest currently on offer. It'll turn sour.[/QUOTE]

Wise words and I would like to suggest a look back - twelve months ago I and 400 other hardly souls were at Macclesfield to watch one of the most gutless and embarrassing performances in 40 years by a Wrexham side. Those who say no better than under mills are talking rubbish. This side may not know how to win but they are nearly all trying at least and either via tactics or recruitment i fervently hope it will get better. I have been bored this season but never as despondent as I felt driving home on September 13th last year.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=moynkeepthefaith;2071720]Wise words and I would like to suggest a look back - twelve months ago I and 400 other hardly souls were at Macclesfield to watch one of the most gutless and embarrassing performances in 40 years by a Wrexham side. Those who say no better than under mills are talking rubbish. This side may not know how to win but they are nearly all trying at least and either via tactics or recruitment i fervently hope it will get better. I have been bored this season but never as despondent as I felt driving home on September 13th last year.[/QUOTE]

You need to start a thread titled "Reality Check"!

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

Although I don't believe now is the time to make changes, I think the OP has made some very valid points. For those defending Keates so vehemently, answer these:

Within our style of attacking play, what has given you hope that things will get better?

How can yesterday's team selection be explained? Two defensive midfielders (one of those a better full-back) at home against the side bottom of the league? And then those substitutions?

We've seen turgid attacking football all season, so why hasn't it been identified and rectified sooner? The signing of Reid might have helped, but our tactics certainly haven't.

Why are our tactics like they are currently? Surely there should be a balance between being defensively solid and being able to at least attack and create some decent chances?

Why do we struggle to string 5 passes together? Why is it so difficult for us to keep possession, show good first touch, pass with some tempo and stretch teams' defence? This isn't asking much because other teams in this league manage it, so why not us?

Why does every attacking set-piece predictably end up being so non-threatning?

How long do we go with the line "We're gelling & haven't clicked yet"?

If people are convinced we'll start playing excellent attacking play, create chances and give teams a beating what evidence thus far has even remotely suggested this?

Plenty of questions, and seemingly a hell of a lot of work to do. Is our current management team capable?

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=TomWFC;2071726]Although I don't believe now is the time to make changes, I think the OP has made some very valid points. For those defending Keates so vehemently, answer these:

Within our style of attacking play, what has given you hope that things will get better?

How can yesterday's team selection be explained? Two defensive midfielders (one of those a better full-back) at home against the side bottom of the league? And then those substitutions?

We've seen turgid attacking football all season, so why hasn't it been identified and rectified sooner? The signing of Reid might have helped, but our tactics certainly haven't.



Why are our tactics like they are currently? Surely there should be a balance between being defensively solid and being able to at least attack and create some decent chances?

Why do we struggle to string 5 passes together? Why is it so difficult for us to keep possession, show good first touch, pass with some tempo and stretch teams' defence? This isn't asking much because other teams in this league manage it, so why not us?

Why does every attacking set-piece predictably end up being so non-threatning?

How long do we go with the line "We're gelling & haven't clicked yet"?

If people are convinced we'll start playing excellent attacking play, create chances and give teams a beating what evidence thus far has even remotely suggested this?

Plenty of questions, and seemingly a hell of a lot of work to do. Is our current management team capable?[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately you ask a lot of definitive questions seeking the same answers and that is simply not possible. Either we accept that this is work in progress or we do not - that is your prerogative. I believe DK and team need/deserve more time but I can't promise what you ask - nobody can.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=pagl;2071715]What difference does it make to you given your not watching it anyway.[/QUOTE]

So he isn't allowed an opinion? What a stupid comment.

Re: Keates isn't the man to take us forward.
 

[QUOTE=riccardo;2071594]Jesus wept. Win 3 in a row and we're going up. Draw 3 in a row and we're calling for the manager to be sacked. Bit of perspective and patience required.[/QUOTE]

Your right , but the fact remains he is playing to defensive , playing Wedgy and Carrington in midfield , at home to a bottom 4 club proves it , if he did that away at the top team fair enough ,This will be our Nemesis , Just watched Louise Moult score 2for Motherwell ! its painful :(