The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham...)

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by jonesfach

Is it roughly now where the lex football club is? Just the other side of the b and q roundabout? Or hav I gone too far from town?

Originally Posted by eastsussexred

I think that the Crispin smithy would have been somewhere around where B&Q is, Jonesfach, with The Crispin Inn being a bit closer to Stansty Lodge Lane,

Jonesfach. I think that The Crispin Inn was somewhere in the region of Stansty Lodge Lane, but on the opposite side of the road.
The Crispin Smithy would have been somewhere around where B&Q is and it appears from the 1835 OS map that the land immediately to the west of The Racecourse (where plas coch hall and its grounds once stood) was called- 'Crispin'. Also, the land immediately to the east of The Racecourse (where Wrexham General Station and the Crispin cottages were) was also known as 'The Crispin'.
It may be that at some point in time, the land on which The Racecourse now stands was called 'Crispin' aswell, as there was a Crispins croft and crispins field where the car park in front of the club shop now stands, as well as Crispin Lane, which disected a field once known as Crispins field.
Just seems strange that Crispin (whoever he was) was not recorded, as the name seems to have had such a big influence in the immediate area. The earliest reference to Crispin that I found was a reference, and a map showing The Crispin Inn, from the 17th Century

[jonesfach]

Originally Posted by eastsussexred

Jonesfach. I think that The Crispin Inn was somewhere in the region of Stansty Lodge Lane, but on the opposite side of the road.
The Crispin Smithy would have been somewhere around where B&Q is and it appears from the 1835 OS map that the land immediately to the west of The Racecourse (where plas coch hall and its grounds once stood) was called- 'Crispin'. Also, the land immediately to the east of The Racecourse (where Wrexham General Station and the Crispin cottages were) was also known as 'The Crispin'.
It may be that at some point in time, the land on which The Racecourse now stands was called 'Crispin' aswell, as there was a Crispins croft and crispins field where the car park in front of the club shop now stands, as well as Crispin Lane, which disected a field once known as Crispins field.
Just seems strange that Crispin (whoever he was) was not recorded, as the name seems to have had such a big influence in the immediate area. The earliest reference to Crispin that I found was a reference, and a map showing The Crispin Inn, from the 17th Century

Thanks as always
Is it safe to say, that Crispin was probably the owner, of the land and named it after himself?

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by eastsussexred

In the 12th Century, the manor of Stansty formed part of the lands owned by Madog ap Gruffudd Maelor (The Prince of Powys Fadog) but prior to building Valle Crucis Abbey in 1201, Madog relocated the inhabitants of Llangwestl, Llangollen (where the abbey was built) to land he owned in Stansty and Northcroft (higher Stansty). He then gave the monks the land in Lower Stansty, Northcroft and also land in Bersham. This land had previously formed a part of the area which had been briefly encircled within Anglo Saxon control by Offa’s Dyke, most likely, sometime during the 780’s A.D. when the name ‘Stansty’ also probably originated from the Anglo-Saxon and old German words of ‘stan’ meaning stone (enclosure, building or road/track) and ‘sti’ (sty)possibly from the germanic word 'stipig' relating to the farming of pigs. The Welsh, however, soon re-occupied this land, pushing Anglo Saxon influence back to just outside of where The Racecourse is now situated, where the Anglo Saxons built another defensive barrier, known as Wat’s Dyke, possibly sometime around the 820’s A.D.
After taking possession of this land in the 13th Century, the Cistercians, or ‘white monks’ built a court (residence for a monk) in Stansty Isaf (later known as Stansty Abbot) close to the earthwork, known as Wats Dyke, and also established a grange (an outlying farm with tithe barns belonging to the Abbey) most likely in the immediate area of the modern-day Racecourse.
The Cistercians are a religious order who branched out from the Benedictine order of France, in the 11th Century, and who specifically adopted the benefits of livestock farming as an economic venture, in addition to the crop farming of the Benedictine order. Aside from their religious duties, Cistercians, along with their lay brothers, would have worked their farms and also served as the leather-makers and shoemakers, who’s industry had evolved from the farming of livestock. The Cistercian influence at Lower Stansty may well have contributed to the growth of Wrexham as a market town, and for the reasons stated above, may also have given rise to the name of St Crispin (the patron saint of shoemakers) being associated with the fields and lanes in the immediate vicinity of The Racecourse.
Lower Stansty, or Stansty Abbott then came into the possession of Sir William Meredith, who was The High Sheriff of Stansty, and the treasurer and paymaster for the British army in the campaigns in The Netherlands, during the reigns of Queen Elizabeth I and King James I. The area became known as Plas Coch (meaning red brick) when a large hall made of red bricks, was built for Sir William, sometime during the 1580’s/90’s, although his family would later sell the Plas Coch estate to Sir John Wynn, in 1709.

Originally Posted by jonesfach

Thanks as always
Is it safe to say, that Crispin was probably the owner, of the land and named it after himself?

I have looked through every online reference source that I can find, Jonesfach, and I cannot find any references to anyone named Crispin in the area, and so I would tend to agree with the 19th Century historian- A. N. Palmer, who stated that the name is probably derived from St Crispin, being the patron saint of shoemakers and leather workers.
There is a lot more information available online nowadays, which was not available to Palmer at the end of the 19th Century, and whereas A.N. Palmer felt that the name might have come about due to a guild of shoemakers buying land in the area in the middle ages, I feel that the name may have been derived from the white monks, or Cistercians of Valle Crucis Abbey, who were granted land in Stansty by Madog ap Gruffudd Maelor, in 1201.
The names of the landowners after this period are well known, and there are no references that I can find to any of them being directly involved in leather making or shoemaking in this area. But with the Cistercians known to have had a tithe barn and a residence (court) in the area, and as it is known that Cistercians, generally, were particularly adept at industrialising the produce of their farms, by introducing leathermaking and shoemaking, then it may be that the name was a local description for an area governed by Cistercians, who's tennants and lay brothers produced leather and leather-goods on a sheep farm, or collection of small farms and crofts, which occupied much of lower Stansty. The name Crispin (relating to St Crispin) could have been an ancient localised name for the area, which was not referenced in any early official documents as it didn't relate to any official estate or residence, such as Plas Coch or Wynnstay. Either that, or some, as yet unkown bloke called Crispin, was the tennant of a small croft just off where the carpark in front of the club shop is now situated, and he gradually bought up most of the fields within a 1 mile radius, and those fields, and an inn, were named after him; but it would be nice to think that the name has survived from the begining of thirteenth Century, when the land was gifted from the Prince of Wales to the Cistercians of Valle Crucis Abbey.
I understand that the connection between the land and early Welsh royalty was then carried forward by the Edwardses of Stansty and the Wynn family, who each claimed ascendancy from the early Welsh leaders.

It seems that our ancestors had to fight the anglo saxons to retake the area of land that The Racecourse was later built on. Wrexham Council should keep that in mind when they discuss any potential plans for re-developing the land behind the kop and the Racecourse.

[eastsussexred]

In 1833, The Turf Tavern consisted of two separate buildings, including an agricultural/stables area on the town side, and the tavern on the Plas Coch side. The stables section and a small part of the tavern was demolished in the 1840/50’s when a new Turf Tavern was annexed onto the old building. At the same time, the old part of the tavern was converted into a press office and offices for race officials. This section, which still exists today as the old club shop, would later be used as changing rooms, in the early days of Wrexham AFC.
At the time that the tithe map (attached) was made (1833) John Tench was the tenant of the tavern, the tavern gardens (where the charity shop is today) and The Racecourse itself.
He paid an annual (church) tithe of £13- 1 shilling – and 3d to the Vicar of Wrexham for The Racecourse, and a separate tithe of £4 and 2 shillings to the land owner Sir WW Wynne. He also paid an annual tithe of 3 shillings and 1 d to the church for the garden and a tithe of just 10d to the church for the tavern.
I am uncertain as to why there was no tithe due to the Wynne family for the tavern and garden. Perhaps the land on which the tavern and the garden were built, still belonged to the church at the time. The ownership of these tithes dates back to 1201, when the Prince of Powys Fadog gave the land to Valle Crucis Abbey- hence the payment to the vicar of Wrexham.
In the early days of racing on the course, timber stands would be erected at either side of The Turf Tavern, with one situated between the tavern and the tavern garden.

[eastsussexred]

The attached ‘Tithe map 1’ shows the northern edge of the original racecourse in the early 1830’s, with Crispin Lane highlighted in red. At that time, The Racecourse was much bigger than the current stadium and the course was oval in shape, running in a South to North direction, out toward the plastic pitch behind the student flats, where two small, un-named, ploughed fields (numbered 127 and 120 on the map) bordered the edge of the course. John Tench was the tenant of plot 127, paying a tithe to W.W. Wynn, and the other field was under the direct ownership of W.W. Wynn, so there was no tithe to pay. As mentioned in the last post, John Tench was also the tenant of The Racecourse, paying tithes to both the vicar of Wrexham and the owner of the course- W.W. Wynn. Beyond these two fields was a plot listed as Crispin Croft (numbered 121 on the map) with a tenant paying a tithe, solely to a Mr John Foulkes, while on the town side of Crispin Lane, plot 48 is listed as Crispin Field, with another tenant paying a tithe, only to John Foulkes.
On the second attachment (Tithe map2) I have zoomed out to show a wider area and circled Crispin Field and Crispin Croft in yellow, but also highlighted plot 73 (in blue) which is listed as Crispin Meadow. Again, the tenant of this plot paid a tithe, only to John Foulkes. In the lower apex of this field is a cottage and smithy, under private ownership, which was known as The Crispin Smithy. Further along Mold Road, I have highlighted two small fields in green; these fields had previously been the location of The Crispin Inn, before it was demolished (see attachment 3) and the tenants of both of these fields were paying a tithe, only to John Foulkes, whereas, all of the other surrounding fields had different owners. John Foulkes was the owner of many other fields and properties in the area and was also the owner of Ashfield Hall, off Crispin Lane, just beyond Crispin Croft, but he was the sole tithe owner of all of the fields which bore the name of Crispin, even though they were spread out amidst other fields and properties, which had different tithe owners, especially the church and W.W. Wynn.
From this, it would seem most likely that the Crispin connection was inherited through the Foulkes family, as The Crispin Inn was known to be in existence at least 150 years before the tithe map was compiled, and presumably, the field-names were also, at least of the same age.
The Foulkes family of Wrexham were a wealthy family from the legal profession, with John Foulkes being a solicitor, who followed his father, also named John, into the profession. His half-brother, William Langford Foulkes of Rakery Hall, Llay was also a barrister and magistrate.
John Foulkes (jnr) lived at Ashfield Hall, which was situated just beyond Crispin Croft, on the northern side of The Racecourse, with his wife- Elizabeth, 2 sons and 7 daughters; one of whom, married the playwright and actor- Henry James Byron, the cousin of Lord Byron, while another married the London Barrister and author, William Carew Hazlitt; the family were very well connected.
John Foulkes (jnr) died in 1861 and his wife and the younger members of his family may have moved to Penybryn Hall, before moving to The Lodge in Wrexham, although his son, William Bennion Foulkes (a Dragoon Guard) remained at Ashfield Hall, until his death in 1872.
The land register of 1872 recorded that John Foulkes’s widow- Elizabeth (b 1807- d 1883) owned over 916 acres of land in the Wrexham area, with his brother- William Langford Foulkes owning 105 acres and William Bennion Foulkes owning 45 acres, though the house at Ashfield, together with 14 acres of grounds, would be leased to tenants sometime around 1885.
Much of the family’s wealth must have been inherited through John’s father- John Foulkes snr (born 1773) who was also a solicitor, as well as being a magistrate, and who lived with his second wife at Elwy House in King Street, Wrexham, until his death, at home in 1833, though, the family inheritance would appear to have been much more Ancient.
In 1875, Elizabeth Foulkes’s son-in-law, William Carew Hazlitt, published a treatise called ‘The Tenures of Land and Customs of Manors’ which correlated earlier works on the customs relating to tenures of historic manors.
Under the title, The Manor of Stansty, Hazlitt wrote

‘Mrs Foulkes pays 1s a year quit-rent to the lord of the manor Sir Watkin Wynn, in respect to a tenement in this lordship, otherwise freehold. Tenures of this description, it may be stated generally, are not uncommon. Mrs Foulkes is the lay-rector of Stansty, and takes commuted rent-charge on the great tithes. Till the payment in kind was discontinued, it was usual to distinguish the rectors by the insertion of a small twig or stick’

Quit-rent was an ancient form of payment, under feudal law, on leasehold or freehold land, which could be paid, in certain circumstances, to the lord of the manor, and which freed the payer from the obligation of services to the lord under feudal tenure. Or in other words, for a traditionally nominal fee, the Foulkes family were free from all of the other obligations and services that a tenant or leaseholder was obliged to provide to the lord of the manor. In additional, Mrs Foulkes was the lay-rector of the manor, which was not an active ecclesiastical role, but rather, an ancient role which gave entitlement for the landowner who had bought or inherited property on the site of historical church or abbey land, to collect nominal church tithes on the land that they owned.
During Henry VIII’s dissolution of the monasteries in the 16th Century, Valle Crucis Abbey and its lands were sold off. When this happened, the purchasers of the land also inherited the role of lay-rector, which gave them entitlement to the tithes and glebe rents, previously owned by the dissolved religious houses, even though the monastic properties may no longer have existed, as was likely the case in the area around The Racecourse. These tithes were different to the tithes collected by the vicar of Wrexham, which were used for the church and for his own upkeep, but the fact that Elizabeth Foulkes had retained the ancient entitlement of lay rector in 1875, proves that the Foulkes family had either bought or inherited ancient monastic land, which dated back to the land owned by Valle Crucis Abbey, and as the family owned also all of the fields and property which bore the name of Crispin, amidst land that was owned by others, then it is possible the name of Crispin, or St Crispin, also dates back to the earlier monastic ownership of the land.
In addition to this, the earliest reference that I can find to The Turf Tavern comes from a parish register which states that Joseph and Margaret Foulkes were the landlords of the tavern in 1819, although I have not yet been able to establish if they come from the same Foulkes family. Curiously, though, records from the tithe maps show that the landlord of the tavern in the 1830’s- John Tench, was paying a small tithe to the vicar of Wrexham in the 1830’s with no tithe to Sir W.W. Wynne, while there is an entry of 4 crosses in the margin, under the name of John Foulkes. This is unusual as the margins were left blank if no tithes were due, but the 4 crosses may suggest that the Foulkes family had also owned, either the tavern or the land it was built on, or had previously had entitlement to the tithe, due from the tenant.

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by eastsussexred

The attached ‘Tithe map 1’ shows the northern edge of the original racecourse in the early 1830’s, with Crispin Lane highlighted in red. At that time, The Racecourse was much bigger than the current stadium and the course was oval in shape, running in a South to North direction, out toward the plastic pitch behind the student flats, where two small, un-named, ploughed fields (numbered 127 and 120 on the map) bordered the edge of the course. John Tench was the tenant of plot 127, paying a tithe to W.W. Wynn, and the other field was under the direct ownership of W.W. Wynn, so there was no tithe to pay. As mentioned in the last post, John Tench was also the tenant of The Racecourse, paying tithes to both the vicar of Wrexham and the owner of the course- W.W. Wynn. Beyond these two fields was a plot listed as Crispin Croft (numbered 121 on the map) with a tenant paying a tithe, solely to a Mr John Foulkes, while on the town side of Crispin Lane, plot 48 is listed as Crispin Field, with another tenant paying a tithe, only to John Foulkes.
On the second attachment (Tithe map2) I have zoomed out to show a wider area and circled Crispin Field and Crispin Croft in yellow, but also highlighted plot 73 (in blue) which is listed as Crispin Meadow. Again, the tenant of this plot paid a tithe, only to John Foulkes. In the lower apex of this field is a cottage and smithy, under private ownership, which was known as The Crispin Smithy. Further along Mold Road, I have highlighted two small fields in green; these fields had previously been the location of The Crispin Inn, before it was demolished (see attachment 3) and the tenants of both of these fields were paying a tithe, only to John Foulkes, whereas, all of the other surrounding fields had different owners. John Foulkes was the owner of many other fields and properties in the area and was also the owner of Ashfield Hall, off Crispin Lane, just beyond Crispin Croft, but he was the sole tithe owner of all of the fields which bore the name of Crispin, even though they were spread out amidst other fields and properties, which had different tithe owners, especially the church and W.W. Wynn.
From this, it would seem most likely that the Crispin connection was inherited through the Foulkes family, as The Crispin Inn was known to be in existence at least 150 years before the tithe map was compiled, and presumably, the field-names were also, at least of the same age.
The Foulkes family of Wrexham were a wealthy family from the legal profession, with John Foulkes being a solicitor, who followed his father, also named John, into the profession. His half-brother, William Langford Foulkes of Rakery Hall, Llay was also a barrister and magistrate.
John Foulkes (jnr) lived at Ashfield Hall, which was situated just beyond Crispin Croft, on the northern side of The Racecourse, with his wife- Elizabeth, 2 sons and 7 daughters; one of whom, married the playwright and actor- Henry James Byron, the cousin of Lord Byron, while another married the London Barrister and author, William Carew Hazlitt; the family were very well connected.
John Foulkes (jnr) died in 1861 and his wife and the younger members of his family may have moved to Penybryn Hall, before moving to The Lodge in Wrexham, although his son, William Bennion Foulkes (a Dragoon Guard) remained at Ashfield Hall, until his death in 1872.
The land register of 1872 recorded that John Foulkes’s widow- Elizabeth (b 1807- d 1883) owned over 916 acres of land in the Wrexham area, with his brother- William Langford Foulkes owning 105 acres and William Bennion Foulkes owning 45 acres, though the house at Ashfield, together with 14 acres of grounds, would be leased to tenants sometime around 1885.
Much of the family’s wealth must have been inherited through John’s father- John Foulkes snr (born 1773) who was also a solicitor, as well as being a magistrate, and who lived with his second wife at Elwy House in King Street, Wrexham, until his death, at home in 1833, though, the family inheritance would appear to have been much more Ancient.
In 1875, Elizabeth Foulkes’s son-in-law, William Carew Hazlitt, published a treatise called ‘The Tenures of Land and Customs of Manors’ which correlated earlier works on the customs relating to tenures of historic manors.
Under the title, The Manor of Stansty, Hazlitt wrote

‘Mrs Foulkes pays 1s a year quit-rent to the lord of the manor Sir Watkin Wynn, in respect to a tenement in this lordship, otherwise freehold. Tenures of this description, it may be stated generally, are not uncommon. Mrs Foulkes is the lay-rector of Stansty, and takes commuted rent-charge on the great tithes. Till the payment in kind was discontinued, it was usual to distinguish the rectors by the insertion of a small twig or stick’

Quit-rent was an ancient form of payment, under feudal law, on leasehold or freehold land, which could be paid, in certain circumstances, to the lord of the manor, and which freed the payer from the obligation of services to the lord under feudal tenure. Or in other words, for a traditionally nominal fee, the Foulkes family were free from all of the other obligations and services that a tenant or leaseholder was obliged to provide to the lord of the manor. In additional, Mrs Foulkes was the lay-rector of the manor, which was not an active ecclesiastical role, but rather, an ancient role which gave entitlement for the landowner who had bought or inherited property on the site of historical church or abbey land, to collect nominal church tithes on the land that they owned.
During Henry VIII’s dissolution of the monasteries in the 16th Century, Valle Crucis Abbey and its lands were sold off. When this happened, the purchasers of the land also inherited the role of lay-rector, which gave them entitlement to the tithes and glebe rents, previously owned by the dissolved religious houses, even though the monastic properties may no longer have existed, as was likely the case in the area around The Racecourse. These tithes were different to the tithes collected by the vicar of Wrexham, which were used for the church and for his own upkeep, but the fact that Elizabeth Foulkes had retained the ancient entitlement of lay rector in 1875, proves that the Foulkes family had either bought or inherited ancient monastic land, which dated back to the land owned by Valle Crucis Abbey, and as the family owned also all of the fields and property which bore the name of Crispin, amidst land that was owned by others, then it is possible the name of Crispin, or St Crispin, also dates back to the earlier monastic ownership of the land.
In addition to this, the earliest reference that I can find to The Turf Tavern comes from a parish register which states that Joseph and Margaret Foulkes were the landlords of the tavern in 1819, although I have not yet been able to establish if they come from the same Foulkes family. Curiously, though, records from the tithe maps show that the landlord of the tavern in the 1830’s- John Tench, was paying a small tithe to the vicar of Wrexham in the 1830’s with no tithe to Sir W.W. Wynne, while there is an entry of 4 crosses in the margin, under the name of John Foulkes. This is unusual as the margins were left blank if no tithes were due, but the 4 crosses may suggest that the Foulkes family had also owned, either the tavern or the land it was built on, or had previously had entitlement to the tithe, due from the tenant.

Correction- John Foulkes's name did not appear in the margins of the records for tithe payments, relating to the Turf Tavern, and the 4 crosses (as above) related to a different location. Therefore the Foulkes family did not own or have entitlement to the land on which the turf tavern was built on.

[terrytactics]

Fascinating stuff as usual ESR. Keep it coming.

[Taylorphilj]

Thomas Heath listed above who played in the first ever Wrexham team on 22 October 1864 was my Great Great Great Grandfather on my Mum's side.

I have a photo of him as a Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards which I tweeted to the Football Club yesterday.

In the Wrexham area he worked as a flour mill engineer.

My Great Grandmother was Sarah Heath. She was born in Gresford. Tom's Wife was called Sarah Heath too.

Coincidentally ex Man U and Wrexham Goalkeeper Dave Gaskell is my Dad's second cousin! His Mum and my Grandma were First Cousins.

[eastsussexred]

Originally Posted by Taylorphilj

Thomas Heath listed above who played in the first ever Wrexham team on 22 October 1864 was my Great Great Great Grandfather on my Mum's side.

I have a photo of him as a Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards which I tweeted to the Football Club yesterday.

In the Wrexham area he worked as a flour mill engineer.

My Great Grandmother was Sarah Heath. She was born in Gresford. Tom's Wife was called Sarah Heath too.

Coincidentally ex Man U and Wrexham Goalkeeper Dave Gaskell is my Dad's second cousin! His Mum and my Grandma were First Cousins.

That is fantastic news Taylorphilj. If there is anything that you require, with regard to his life that I can help you with, such as newspaper articles or other references, then please let me know via pm. Would be great to see a copy of the photo of one of our founding players.
As previously stated, I would hope that the founding players and members would recieve some kind of recognition, by means of a plaque at The Racecourse (at least) when we can finally establish the details of the last player- Joseph Roberts.
Welcome to RedPassion.