The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham...) - Page 146 - RedPassion.co.uk

eastsussex · 30th January 2024, 11.37:05

Hi belperexile. Thank you.

I originally started this thread when I learned that Wrexham Village (they own the flats next to the stadium) were trying to sell the land behind the kop.
If they had succeeded at that time, then the stadium would have been permanently restricted to a 3-sided ground, which would have been very detrimental to the interests and future of the football club. Therefore, a number of us fans started a campaign to try to save the land behind the kop.

Initially, we wrote to politicians and local businesses to try to gain support as we could not raise the funds to buy the land ourselves. But as I have an interest in anthropology, I felt that the best way to raise the profile of the club was to highlight the history and heritage of the club, the stadium, the town and its people.
I started writing to different organisations, both at home and abroad whenever I found new information; and so, from my perspective, this thread is a kind of open notebook, which I use to share that information.
The club and stadium are much more than just the sum of their parts. They are deeply embedded in the history and heritage of the town and its people
For many of our fans, the club is akin to a religion and the stadium is a place of worship, where people can invest their hopes and dreams, and set aside their troubles, if only for a brief period of time. Many fans today can point out the exact position on the terraces where their father used to stand when he was still alive, or their grandfather, and sometimes, their great grandfather. The club and stadium are quite literally written into their DNA.

The football club was founded around the time when the railway was being expanded into the region, although most people still travelled on foot or on horseback. There were no modern antibiotics, antiseptics or anaesthetics. Poverty was rife and life was extremely harsh for the vast majority of the population.
In order to write this thread, I first needed to find references to the people who were involved with the cricket club when the football club was created, but I also needed to cross reference, relentlessly, in order to establish that the person that I was researching was the correct person.
Many of these people lost parents at a very young age and they also lost siblings, which was not unusual at that time. A majority also lost at least one wife due to childbirth, and they also lost their own children. Existence was a great deal harsher than it is today, and so I have a deep admiration for the people that I write about, as they endured so much, in order to provide us with the privileges that we enjoy today.

The Turf Hotel is comprised of 2 different public houses (The Grandstand and The Turf Tavern) which were each built at different times for different purposes.
The lower section of the current hotel (the Turf Tavern) was built at some point between 1793 and 1819. It was recorded on a map that was surveyed in 1819, and the same year, the name of the tavern was listed in a Parish register, which recorded the birth of the landlord and landlady’s son.
The taller section, where the bar area is today, was a new building (The Grandstand) which was built a few metres away from the tavern to provide a more up-market experience, where the upper sections of society could wine and dine, away from the riff-raff in the tavern. The Grandstand section was first recorded in the same Parish register when the landlord and landlady had a daughter in 1822.
Both sections were joined together to form the current hotel in 1913.
I have written numerous posts throughout the thread to provide the dates when the structural and aesthetic changes were made to the property and I lobbied Welsh Heritage for a number of years for them to change their report of a survey of The Turf, which was carried out in the 1990’s.
The Turf was originally thought to have been built in the 1840’s and demolished in the 1850’s, but it is now accepted by Welsh Heritage that the pub was never demolished and dates back to at least 1819 and possibly, as far back as the end of the 18th Century.
There are just so many posts about the Turf Hotel in the thread (with attachments and links) which I have updated numerous times, that I can only suggest that you quickly scan through the thread, belperexile, until you find a post that provides you with the information that you need, as all of the posts are interlinked to provide a much more in-depth history of the hotel and stadium; i.e., a post about changes to the hotel in the 1890’s wouldn’t make a great deal of sense unless you knew what had happened in the 1850’s etc.

There is now a brief summary on Coflein’s website

https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/406219/

I trust this helps.

eastsussex · 2nd February 2024, 21.55:01

Evening belperexile.

I didnt watch the BBC Wales coverage, so I am not sure what 2 to 3 second segment of film you are refering to. But you can find all of the earlier film images of The Turf Hotel and MRS in the links below, which I posted on this thread back in 2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by belperexile

To Eastsussex,

I congratulate you on your excellent research over the years on our club. It is truly amazing. Thanks.

Early into the WAFC montage on the BBC Wales coverage last night in the introduction prior to kick off, there was a 2/3 second image (or film) of the old MRS and The Turf with the "extension" (possibly 1950's?). Blink and you missed it. But if you pause it carefully, you get a terrific image. It was a brilliant.

I wonder if anyone on here with better capabilities than me can download the image onto this thread.

I'm currently reading this thread from page 1 (currently on p18) and clicking onto every attachment. It's better than any book!

Has anyone bought the Peter Jones history book? I'd like some feedback before I part with £40.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastsussexred

eastsussex · 3rd February 2024, 09.29:32

If you are not able to watch the 1906 Wales v Ireland game in top link in the post above, then you can also watch it on this link from YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0TzDq_metI

The film shows the players coming back onto the pitch for the second half in front of the Turf Hotel (1min 21 seconds into the film).
You can clearly see the original timber-framed outer skin of building, which was later removed when the stadium and hotel were renovated, prior to the Wales v Scotland game in 1913. The outer skin of the building was replaced with the rendered panels that you can still see at the back of the hotel today.
You can also clearly see that the 2 parts of the hotel (the Grandstand and the Turf Tavern) had been joined together by means of an undercroft (a connecting room on the first floor), The 2 structures were joined together in 1854, but the undercroft was bricked-up in 1913 to create the bar area, as it is today.

Over the years, I have updated this thread with the details and dates of all of the renovation work to the Turf Hotel and stadium.

I have also attached a still shot from the film.

eastsussex · 4th February 2024, 13.47:29

Correction regarding Maesgwyn Hall in the post about Maesgwyn Road, on the previous page.

Edward Tench was not the landlord of the Turf Hotel; but rather, he had been a land agent for Sir Watkin Williams Wynn and he was involved in some aspects of the management of the hotel while he was the land agent. Instead, ‘John’ Tench had been the landlord of the Turf Tavern from the 1830’s until his death in 1849.

Edward Tench (1804-1881 ) was a land agent for a number of the prominent families in the area. He was also the President of the Provincial Welsh Insurance Company and the President of the Wrexham Court Leet.

The home of Edward Tench ‘Maesgwyn’ appears to have been built at the end of the 1850’s. It was never demolished, but was later converted into a Masonic Hall. (The house was recorded on a map in 1872, which shows the same footprint as the current building).

His wife- Jessica Tench died in 1906 and the rest of Edward Tench’s estate was put up for sale in 1916.

The house was advertised for sale in 1916, when it was described as containing 4 entertaining rooms, 6 bedrooms, a bathroom, ample domestic offices and cellarage. Extensive and convenient outbuildings, a gardener’s cottage and nicely laid out grounds with a greenhouse, a plant house, garden frames; walled and other gardens and valuable pasture fields, extending to a total of 7 and a half acres.
The house was advertised for sale again in 1925 and was then occupied by a number of different owners until it was converted into a Masonic Hall, with the first meeting being held in 1963.

I appreciate that this information won’t be of interest to most people; but a pint at Maesgwyn Hall is regarded as a part of the match-day experience for some of our fans, although the history of the hall, itself has not previously been recorded.

eastsussex · 8th February 2024, 14.30:22

3 maps (attached) showing the different phases of construction at The Turf Tavern and The Grandstand.

1. John Evans map showing The Racecourse and The Turf Tavern in 1819

2. Late 1890's map (pre 1913) side-by-side with an 1840's tithe map that shows the Turf Tavern and The Grandstand as seperate buildings.

3. 1872 map showing that the Turf Tavern and The Grandstand sections had been joined together to form The Turf Hotel.

The two buildings were joined together in 1854, but the entire property was refurbished in 1913.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastsussex

Hi belperexile. Thank you.

I originally started this thread when I learned that Wrexham Village (they own the flats next to the stadium) were trying to sell the land behind the kop.
If they had succeeded at that time, then the stadium would have been permanently restricted to a 3-sided ground, which would have been very detrimental to the interests and future of the football club. Therefore, a number of us fans started a campaign to try to save the land behind the kop.

Initially, we wrote to politicians and local businesses to try to gain support as we could not raise the funds to buy the land ourselves. But as I have an interest in anthropology, I felt that the best way to raise the profile of the club was to highlight the history and heritage of the club, the stadium, the town and its people.
I started writing to different organisations, both at home and abroad whenever I found new information; and so, from my perspective, this thread is a kind of open notebook, which I use to share that information.
The club and stadium are much more than just the sum of their parts. They are deeply embedded in the history and heritage of the town and its people
For many of our fans, the club is akin to a religion and the stadium is a place of worship, where people can invest their hopes and dreams, and set aside their troubles, if only for a brief period of time. Many fans today can point out the exact position on the terraces where their father used to stand when he was still alive, or their grandfather, and sometimes, their great grandfather. The club and stadium are quite literally written into their DNA.

The football club was founded around the time when the railway was being expanded into the region, although most people still travelled on foot or on horseback. There were no modern antibiotics, antiseptics or anaesthetics. Poverty was rife and life was extremely harsh for the vast majority of the population.
In order to write this thread, I first needed to find references to the people who were involved with the cricket club when the football club was created, but I also needed to cross reference, relentlessly, in order to establish that the person that I was researching was the correct person.
Many of these people lost parents at a very young age and they also lost siblings, which was not unusual at that time. A majority also lost at least one wife due to childbirth, and they also lost their own children. Existence was a great deal harsher than it is today, and so I have a deep admiration for the people that I write about, as they endured so much, in order to provide us with the privileges that we enjoy today.

The Turf Hotel is comprised of 2 different public houses (The Grandstand and The Turf Tavern) which were each built at different times for different purposes.
The lower section of the current hotel (the Turf Tavern) was built at some point between 1793 and 1819. It was recorded on a map that was surveyed in 1819, and the same year, the name of the tavern was listed in a Parish register, which recorded the birth of the landlord and landlady’s son.
The taller section, where the bar area is today, was a new building (The Grandstand) which was built a few metres away from the tavern to provide a more up-market experience, where the upper sections of society could wine and dine, away from the riff-raff in the tavern. The Grandstand section was first recorded in the same Parish register when the landlord and landlady had a daughter in 1822.
Both sections were joined together to form the current hotel in 1913.
I have written numerous posts throughout the thread to provide the dates when the structural and aesthetic changes were made to the property and I lobbied Welsh Heritage for a number of years for them to change their report of a survey of The Turf, which was carried out in the 1990’s.
The Turf was originally thought to have been built in the 1840’s and demolished in the 1850’s, but it is now accepted by Welsh Heritage that the pub was never demolished and dates back to at least 1819 and possibly, as far back as the end of the 18th Century.
There are just so many posts about the Turf Hotel in the thread (with attachments and links) which I have updated numerous times, that I can only suggest that you quickly scan through the thread, belperexile, until you find a post that provides you with the information that you need, as all of the posts are interlinked to provide a much more in-depth history of the hotel and stadium; i.e., a post about changes to the hotel in the 1890’s wouldn’t make a great deal of sense unless you knew what had happened in the 1850’s etc.

There is now a brief summary on Coflein’s website

https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/406219/

I trust this helps.

30th January 2024, 11.37:05	#1306-0 (permalink)
eastsussex First Teamer Joined: Dec 2014 Racecourse Spot: Real Name: eastsussexred Twitter: @	Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Hi belperexile. Thank you. I originally started this thread when I learned that Wrexham Village (they own the flats next to the stadium) were trying to sell the land behind the kop. If they had succeeded at that time, then the stadium would have been permanently restricted to a 3-sided ground, which would have been very detrimental to the interests and future of the football club. Therefore, a number of us fans started a campaign to try to save the land behind the kop. Initially, we wrote to politicians and local businesses to try to gain support as we could not raise the funds to buy the land ourselves. But as I have an interest in anthropology, I felt that the best way to raise the profile of the club was to highlight the history and heritage of the club, the stadium, the town and its people. I started writing to different organisations, both at home and abroad whenever I found new information; and so, from my perspective, this thread is a kind of open notebook, which I use to share that information. The club and stadium are much more than just the sum of their parts. They are deeply embedded in the history and heritage of the town and its people For many of our fans, the club is akin to a religion and the stadium is a place of worship, where people can invest their hopes and dreams, and set aside their troubles, if only for a brief period of time. Many fans today can point out the exact position on the terraces where their father used to stand when he was still alive, or their grandfather, and sometimes, their great grandfather. The club and stadium are quite literally written into their DNA. The football club was founded around the time when the railway was being expanded into the region, although most people still travelled on foot or on horseback. There were no modern antibiotics, antiseptics or anaesthetics. Poverty was rife and life was extremely harsh for the vast majority of the population. In order to write this thread, I first needed to find references to the people who were involved with the cricket club when the football club was created, but I also needed to cross reference, relentlessly, in order to establish that the person that I was researching was the correct person. Many of these people lost parents at a very young age and they also lost siblings, which was not unusual at that time. A majority also lost at least one wife due to childbirth, and they also lost their own children. Existence was a great deal harsher than it is today, and so I have a deep admiration for the people that I write about, as they endured so much, in order to provide us with the privileges that we enjoy today. The Turf Hotel is comprised of 2 different public houses (The Grandstand and The Turf Tavern) which were each built at different times for different purposes. The lower section of the current hotel (the Turf Tavern) was built at some point between 1793 and 1819. It was recorded on a map that was surveyed in 1819, and the same year, the name of the tavern was listed in a Parish register, which recorded the birth of the landlord and landlady’s son. The taller section, where the bar area is today, was a new building (The Grandstand) which was built a few metres away from the tavern to provide a more up-market experience, where the upper sections of society could wine and dine, away from the riff-raff in the tavern. The Grandstand section was first recorded in the same Parish register when the landlord and landlady had a daughter in 1822. Both sections were joined together to form the current hotel in 1913. I have written numerous posts throughout the thread to provide the dates when the structural and aesthetic changes were made to the property and I lobbied Welsh Heritage for a number of years for them to change their report of a survey of The Turf, which was carried out in the 1990’s. The Turf was originally thought to have been built in the 1840’s and demolished in the 1850’s, but it is now accepted by Welsh Heritage that the pub was never demolished and dates back to at least 1819 and possibly, as far back as the end of the 18th Century. There are just so many posts about the Turf Hotel in the thread (with attachments and links) which I have updated numerous times, that I can only suggest that you quickly scan through the thread, belperexile, until you find a post that provides you with the information that you need, as all of the posts are interlinked to provide a much more in-depth history of the hotel and stadium; i.e., a post about changes to the hotel in the 1890’s wouldn’t make a great deal of sense unless you knew what had happened in the 1850’s etc. There is now a brief summary on Coflein’s website https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/406219/ I trust this helps. Last edited by eastsussex; 30th January 2024 at 11.48:39..

4th February 2024, 13.47:29	#1309-0 (permalink)
eastsussex First Teamer Joined: Dec 2014 Racecourse Spot: Real Name: eastsussexred Twitter: @	Re: The massive Wrexham AFC history thread (The sad case of a founding members and player of Wrexham Correction regarding Maesgwyn Hall in the post about Maesgwyn Road, on the previous page. Edward Tench was not the landlord of the Turf Hotel; but rather, he had been a land agent for Sir Watkin Williams Wynn and he was involved in some aspects of the management of the hotel while he was the land agent. Instead, ‘John’ Tench had been the landlord of the Turf Tavern from the 1830’s until his death in 1849. Edward Tench (1804-1881 ) was a land agent for a number of the prominent families in the area. He was also the President of the Provincial Welsh Insurance Company and the President of the Wrexham Court Leet. The home of Edward Tench ‘Maesgwyn’ appears to have been built at the end of the 1850’s. It was never demolished, but was later converted into a Masonic Hall. (The house was recorded on a map in 1872, which shows the same footprint as the current building). His wife- Jessica Tench died in 1906 and the rest of Edward Tench’s estate was put up for sale in 1916. The house was advertised for sale in 1916, when it was described as containing 4 entertaining rooms, 6 bedrooms, a bathroom, ample domestic offices and cellarage. Extensive and convenient outbuildings, a gardener’s cottage and nicely laid out grounds with a greenhouse, a plant house, garden frames; walled and other gardens and valuable pasture fields, extending to a total of 7 and a half acres. The house was advertised for sale again in 1925 and was then occupied by a number of different owners until it was converted into a Masonic Hall, with the first meeting being held in 1963. I appreciate that this information won’t be of interest to most people; but a pint at Maesgwyn Hall is regarded as a part of the match-day experience for some of our fans, although the history of the hall, itself has not previously been recorded.