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Old 10th June 2019, 18.48:37   #31-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

This article is well out of date..

It would be interesting to know the current situation.
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Old 10th June 2019, 19.55:07   #32-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
I've mentioned the Wimbledon model a few times over the years, for two reasons. The duality of their share ownership and ability to leverage it to build capital sums when needed (see the £1.2m) and the full time direction offered by the key board members.

I've always felt a dual approach with a separate share class allows freedom to capital raise for larger projects (such as training facilities) but it needs a more pragmatic approach than the political purity of the current system.

Worth noting that on the Bryn thread the discussions re the day the fans raised the bond money. On that day with an hour to go we were short, a fan from London who was on holiday at the time but had been discussing investing as part of a duality scheme via the Friends of Wrexham group and the former Chair of the Trust (who was very pragmatic and pro duality) stepped in to underwrite the difference to ensure we made it. A group of minority shareholders who can be dipped into to capital raise would allow much greater financial fire power.

However its politically less pure and for this reason I see it being a non runner for the foreseeable future despite the fact £500k was identified within a week last time around from just 4 people when we were examining whether the minority group could ensure the ground came as part of the sale. If it wasn't countenanced to keep the ground then I can't see any other scenario where it would be acceptable to the hierarchy.
I never knew any nor this, Iím not sure I totally understand, but are you saying we could in theory have bought Colliers!!! Please God let this NOT be the case. I fear Iím about to see my arse big time!!!!
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Old 10th June 2019, 21.20:53   #33-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

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Originally Posted by Maccie View Post
I never knew any nor this, Iím not sure I totally understand, but are you saying we could in theory have bought Colliers!!! Please God let this NOT be the case. I fear Iím about to see my arse big time!!!!
I've seen my arse for a long time with the closed shop mentality who clearly support their political ideals more than the football club.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03.24:04   #34-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

I still dont understand what anyone owns.
I dont feel like an owner, I dont have a share but I get to vote on the trust board and any acceptable rules.

Basically the trust board own the club, the club is a business/going concern and really thats it. Its run financially very well and basically underwritten by the trust.

After that there is nothing, ground rent the responsibility of another company/business.

The part time nature means we simply tread water and just deal with anything as it arises.

There is no strategy or planning as I think we would need to double/triple our resources to make this happen.

As BV says there are things that could/should be done but there is no appetite to open up these avenues. Having people like BV, QR and others to advise could propel us forward but it needs that desire to make some strategic decisions and also a structure in place.

Some will need to continue with a more admin role in the trust so it would not sit well.
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Old 11th June 2019, 07.02:44   #35-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

I hope this all doesnít get lost/swept under the carpets. This is actually potentially one of the most important issues around the future of club!
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Old 11th June 2019, 08.38:48   #36-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagl View Post
I still dont understand what anyone owns.
I dont feel like an owner, I dont have a share but I get to vote on the trust board and any acceptable rules.

Basically the trust board own the club, the club is a business/going concern and really thats it. Its run financially very well and basically underwritten by the trust.

After that there is nothing, ground rent the responsibility of another company/business.

The part time nature means we simply tread water and just deal with anything as it arises.

There is no strategy or planning as I think we would need to double/triple our resources to make this happen.

As BV says there are things that could/should be done but there is no appetite to open up these avenues. Having people like BV, QR and others to advise could propel us forward but it needs that desire to make some strategic decisions and also a structure in place.

Some will need to continue with a more admin role in the trust so it would not sit well.
Not true. Understand where you're coming from re. ownership but you need to accept that it's basically a co operative.
The trust own the only shares in the club. The trust is it's members. The board it's representatives. The board don't own the club.
You have effectively, the same as every other member, one voting share as a co owner / member of the trust.
Financially your "share" is worthless, can't be traded, can be relinquished.

BV is right, a number of people were interested in investing, one in particular, if I remember rightly, in the COE.
The abuse that the Friends got was unbelievable, especially as we had informed the Trust chair at the time of our intentions to look for additional funding streams and received tentative approval.
It has to be remember that this was at a time when the trust were looking at purchasing the ground as well.
At the time I was critical of the boards approach as they would need to have raised around £4 million and this wasn't likely from the members at £12 a year. Ultimately, purchasing the club for £1 was the best / only option.
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Old 11th June 2019, 08.59:23   #37-0 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Not true. Understand where you're coming from re. ownership but you need to accept that it's basically a co operative.
The trust own the only shares in the club. The trust is it's members. The board it's representatives.
Its a technicality. Its a membership system as I have to pay each year to retain the worthless share. So again I get a vote for my membership.

The rest is just irrelevant. Seems we are missing something here.
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Old 11th June 2019, 09.09:35   #38-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quay Red View Post
Not true. Understand where you're coming from re. ownership but you need to accept that it's basically a co operative.
The trust own the only shares in the club. The trust is it's members. The board it's representatives. The board don't own the club.
You have effectively, the same as every other member, one voting share as a co owner / member of the trust.
Financially your "share" is worthless, can't be traded, can be relinquished.

BV is right, a number of people were interested in investing, one in particular, if I remember rightly, in the COE.
The abuse that the Friends got was unbelievable, especially as we had informed the Trust chair at the time of our intentions to look for additional funding streams and received tentative approval.
It has to be remember that this was at a time when the trust were looking at purchasing the ground as well.
At the time I was critical of the boards approach as they would need to have raised around £4 million and this wasn't likely from the members at £12 a year. Ultimately, purchasing the club for £1 was the best / only option.
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However itís all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldnít do it again!
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Old 11th June 2019, 09.14:12   #39-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However itís all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldnít do it again!
Have to say thats sad. But understand.
Experience and knowledge such as yours could push us to the next level.

The current regime is likely to keep us where we are as the last years have shown.
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Old 11th June 2019, 10.38:11   #40-0 (permalink)
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Default Re: Football club ownership model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagger Vance View Post
From memory the ground was £1.3m - upkeeps and repairs would have pushed it to that figure over time which I thought was still achievable had the right model been pursued. However itís all history, Rich was very pragmatic and it was a shame he stepped down, then everything became horrendous with the politics and subterfuge. One thing for sure is I wouldnít do it again!
Whilst fully supporting trust ownership, I envisage a time in the not to distant future, irrespective of success or lack of on the field, that some form of duality, similar to that at other clubs will need to be looked at.
There is an obvious and not unreasonable fear of a repetition of the Hamilton and Moss eras but ownership of the club is with the trust.
We should now start looking long term in trying to purchase the ground or look to relocate, even if this was to be done over 10 or 20 years. This I feel is an area where controlled share issue could be beneficial.
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